This post has been self-published on Youth Ki Awaaz by Dhruv Arora. Just like them, anyone can publish on Youth Ki Awaaz.

How Times Of India Told Deepika Padukone That She Was “Asking For It”

More from Dhruv Arora

By Dhruv Aroa:

Today is a sad day in Indian journalism. Bombay Times, a supplemental newspaper that is delivered with the main Times of India newspaper in Mumbai, came plastered with the headline “Our Point of View”, and a question as subtext – “Was Deepika’s hypocrisy for publicity?”. Below this mind-numbing headline was another subtext that proudly announced “(Below are) Pictures of Deepika that she got shot voluntarily in real life” with pictures of Deepika Padukone posing for various fashion agencies, magazines, and so forth. This was, I can only guess, done to make some sort of a convoluted point that since Deepika voluntarily (the keyword that TOI so aptly pointed out) indulged in modelling, she is now “asking for it”. The most interesting (read: appalling) aspect of the pictures that have been published has to be the arrow pointing towards Deepika’s cleavage that serves as a friendly reminder to the reader that yes, Deepika Padukone does indeed have cleavage, and for those who may lose their way, the cleavage is located on her chest.

Bombay Times Sexism

The article goes on to rant about how TOI considers itself to be anti-moral-policing, something against which irony has now lost all meaning. The problem that Times of India seems to have failed at addressing with this insightful piece is the idea of consent, the idea that Times of India does not actually get any say in what Deepika chooses to do with her own body, a concept that seems to have completely baffled the author, Ms. Priya Gupta. The Times of India’s response is not only hollow and insulting, but further instigates the patriarchal culture that we live in to shame women for their own bodies in the guise of them somehow asking for it because of what they choose to do in their own lives with their bodies. The most startling thing of all is the reason this debacle started: TOI’s original tweet carried the headline “OMG Deepika’s cleavage show!” — as if to say “can you believe they were visible?”. This was what Deepika had a problem with, and her response to this, which was “Yes, I have breasts and a cleavage. You got a problem?”, only stated that she is not ashamed of the fact that her cleavage was visible, and TOI had no reason to sensationalize the fact.

TOI then raises the pertinent question of how Deepika has the audacity to question Times of India for using sensationalist tactics when she started off her career as a ‘calendar girl for a liquor brand’. At this point I am completely baffled about how anyone in Times of India thought that this was a valid statement to make in this context. What is being implied here, apart from the obvious plea to the moral police of joining the Times of India in shaming Deepika for having cleavage and having the audacity to drink/support/model for an alcoholic brand?

Girls drinking alcohol? Haaye Tauba!

It would be incorrect to end this without highlighting the problems with the “Bollywood culture” and absolving it of all of its problems, such as promoting a specific skin colour as acceptable, promoting the idea of a perfect body, and many, many more. These are all things that Deepika Padukone is herself a part of, and I do wish that she (and many others) who are in influential positions would not condone and practice these other things as well. However, there is a time and a place to pick up issues, and I personally believe that using the problems with the film industry as an excuse to justify what the Times of India has published would be doing a disservice to the causes that we are trying to highlight.

I would like to end this by addressing the following statement made by the Times of India in their article:

“Yes, the headline could have been better. But the world of online is very different from that of newspapers. It is chaotic and cluttered – and sensational headlines are far from uncommon.”

Dear TOI,

To claim that the world of online journalism somehow rationalises and justifies sensationalist headlines and your cluttered approach towards it is an insult to the various other non-mainstream media outlets that have been proving you wrong every step of the way by upholding the idea that sensationalism is not necessary and journalism is still alive and well. Please do not use your incompetency as a crutch to justify your archaic stance towards women, as well as journalism.

There is a way to report incidences and although I understand that the digital media world is extremely different from the print media world, there are still ethical ways of approaching journalism and what we have here is a shining example of what NOT to do. I am offended and quite frankly enraged that you would have such nonsensical ideas towards how women should behave and you would assume the support of the rest of us who utilize this wonderful medium to practice meaningful journalism simply because you are not qualified or rational enough to have actually relevant content on your social media channels.

Please raise your voice against Times of India’s sexism and demand accountability by signing the petition by Jhatkaa here.

To know more about what I think of this story, follow me on twitter at @thedhruvarora

Also Read: Misogyny And Patriarchy In Indian Media: What The Times Of India And Dainik Bhaskar Want You To Think

You must be to comment.
  1. Deepak

    I am disturbed and have problem with this line of that article “Deepika, just for the record, we do not zoom into a woman’s vagina or show her nipples”.

    1. joyee

      Mr Babar may I point out that she was wearing an anarkali when she was subjected to humiliation. So your saying that you much rather see her in salwars is a little confusing. Also with subject to what women wear, it is nobodys business but her own. Even women in burkhas are eve-teased. What are they revealing? Their finger nails. Its all in the mind of people. If a woman is wearing a saree and her waist is shown it is perfectly normal but if the same girl wears a crop top she is subjected to innumerable stares. Its our thoughts we need to change, nobodys dressing. And whatever her familys views on her dressing should not be the topic of a debate. Because it is not our lookout.

    2. lennon

      This Babar (whatever) fellow needs to grow up. So does these weird sexist people. I think half of them are writing such crap just for fun. “why does she have to show the skin” “why does she have to do modelling” ” why does she have to eat” “she dances for publicity” “if she is caught on camera smiling , her father wont be proud” , because wow, you have the worldly knowledge of what is wrong and what is right, because you are the king and now you will tell what this successful and talented person (who does not even know you exist! fortunately!) has to wear or do with her life, because now YOU know whether her father is proud or not! Well let me give you a slap from reality, you are a loser honey! 🙂 You know nothing because you don’t know them. She will still wear whatever the fuck she wants to because she is a strong a successful person which you seem not to be. 😛 She is NOT showing off you morons. She does not need to. She is just wearing whatever the fuck suits her, whatever she likes! Now, listen EVERYONE! yeah EVERYONE! That publicity crap you talk about, please use that little of the brains that you have, if she wants publicity (even though, truly she does not even need it), she would simply go for a nude shoot or a hot item dance. This cheap incident is not a publicity! She is not going to get more movies out of it. People will still not go watch her flops! So grow up. Get some balls. Get a life of your own and let grown ups handle their life themselves!

    3. Babar

      Joyee, people stare at a woman in a saree just as much as they do at a woman in a top. In fact, in India, everyone stares at everyone.

      Ms. Padukone’s pictures in the article, the kind of clothes she opts to wear for her photo shoots, and what she wears in movies cover a lot less than a shalwar kameez. Agreed, what women wear is their choice, but then where men look should also be left to choice. You can’t have the best of both worlds.

      As for eve-teasing, there might have been an exceptional case where a woman in a burka was teased, but it will remain what it is. An exception. If two women are walking together, one in a burka and another in a miniskirt, who will be stared at?

      Best Regards.

    4. joyee

      Babar as for your information the question was whether a leading media house should resort to such avenues for sensationalism. Also if you agree that people in India stare shouldnt you do something to change the mentality of people. It needs to start somewhere right. Also if skin show is a problem how cone you are not actively campaigning against actors who show off their nipples and butts. We should be proud of the fact that she chose to raise her voice instead of just acting dumb and going along with it. And if this is a personal vendetta for you against women then it is suggested you go bck to the dinosaur age.

    5. Babar

      …how cone you are not actively campaigning against actors who show off their nipples…

      Men and women’s bodies are different. A woman showing her nipples amounts to nudity, and it is a criminal offence, even in the west, for a woman to be topless.

    6. joyee

      Our bodies might be different, our rights are equal. And being a citizen of India it is our duty to stand up for whats right and wrong. But people like you are the reason there isnt any progress.

  2. yugal

    believe it or not..dips has used this issue for publicity 🙂

  3. Babar

    Nicely written, Mr. Arora. While I may or may not agree with your point of view, I would, however, like to ask, why does Ms. Padukone feel the need to show her cleavage in the first place? I am sure she can climb the ladder to success in Bollywood through her acting skills, or is she compensating for her lack of talent through a healthy dose of skin show? As far as objectification is concerned, what do we think Bollywood actresses do voluntarily on a regular basis? A number of girls emulate their favourite actresses, and fall prey to the marketing gimmick. Dress sexy in the name of liberation and fashion industries profit by earning billions. Fill women with false notions of beauty, bombard them with pictures of scantily dressed women in fashion shows, TV, billboards, magazines, movies, and music videos, and girls start spending heavily on clothes and start using dieting products even at the cost of suffering from anorexia. You tell people to have transient sexual relationships in the name of emancipation and the profits of companies manufacturing contraceptives skyrocket. Today, perfectly young, beautiful girls are lining up for plastic surgery, spending billions in the process. From beauty and contraception to diet and fashion industries, all are earning enormous amounts of money while women remain deluded with their ideas of liberation and emancipation, supporting an actress who is neither doing social service, nor setting a good example. Also, I am sure Ms. Padukone’s father would not feel proud looking at his daughter’s pictures.

    1. Saurav

      I’m sure her father feels quite proud. Why is it okay for a man to show off his upper body and his underwear and not okay for a woman to do even a smidgen of the same? I think we need to see real equality here. And also just because Deepika made the choice of marketing her own body does not make it right for us to treat it as we wish. That, sir is the cornerstone of the concept of consent. This argument should not be sidetracked into that area.

    2. The Joker

      Err…I’m not so sure, buddy. Daddy ain’t gonna enjoy looking at dear daughter’s boobies.

    3. girlpower

      Again, we’re straying from the context of individual choices.. What in god’s name is wrong with the Indian society? You don’t mind watching porn secretly but have a mouthful to say when a young woman shows off a little skin. And FYI, Miss Padukone is in the film industry, and to highlight it, she’s in the prime limelight at the moment. Its her job to please the audience. I’m sure you wouldn’t enjoy watching her in salwar kameez all the time. A versatile actors gotta do what a versatile actors gotta do… And yes, There’s no need for an actor like her to dress vulgar to promote herself. But where’s all the intelligence, people? Fashion is the basic component of the film industry today. And when Deepika is attired in a bikini, I admit she’s sexy, not vulgar. And to bring to your knowledge, There’s a vast difference. I’m a girl, and yes, if I wear a bikini, I’d definitely look vulgar, but You’d be one of those typical indian men to gauge eyes on me, also to mentally remove the little piece of clothing that’s left on me with your eyes alone. So, before you point out on the audacity one’s having to dress liberally, change your mindset, Indians. I feel sick and honestly, I don’t celebrate Independance days.

    4. Babar

      You don’t mind watching porn secretly but have a mouthful to say when a young woman shows off a little skin.

      There is a world of difference between what you choose to do within the confines of your home, and what you do in public.

      And FYI, Miss Padukone is in the film industry, and to highlight it, she’s in the prime limelight at the moment. Its her job to please the audience.

      There are a number of actors who please the audience through their acting, skill, and talent, without taking their clothes off. They are people who please with talent. Of course, others have to compensate for the lack of it through nonsensical items of clothing.

      I’m sure you wouldn’t enjoy watching her in salwar kameez all the time.

      Are you actually propagating that she take her clothes off for other people’s entertainment? It is sheer hypocrisy that on one hand you are fighting against women’s objectification and on the other, you are supporting it. As for your question, I would much rather watch her in a shalwar kameez.

      Fashion is the basic component of the film industry today.

      Countless girls today are fashionable in every sense and they dress very decently. Being fashionable and indulging in skin show are poles apart. According to your comment, people like Rakhi Sawant and Poonam Pandey must be very fashionable.

    5. girlpower

      First of all, I’m not against your opinion. Every individual is entitled to make use of their right to freedom of speech. Although, can you name one female actor of today’s era who Hasn’t exposed a little cleavage ever? And how can you indigenously point out that there are actors who use their talent and skills to please the audience “without taking their clothes off”? … You’re making an unnecessary fuss out of a little cleavage exposed. Everybody’s cleavage gets exposed once in a while dude. Mine does. I’m sure the women in your family as well. Not trying to be ridiculous, but its true. Ofc the men will ridicule us for “seeking attention”. But the truth is far-fetched. And yes, I don’t mean for her to strip for people’s entertainment..haha..that was pretty funny..sorry. Like you mentioned, there are a group of women for that area of business. All I can say is its a burden to be born as a girl in India. Recently, there was a promo for an Aamir Khan movie where he’s posing nude just with some piece of board held roughly before his pelvic region. Well..no commotion regarding that..you know what I’m saying. Equality in india is like a pipe dream for women like us. And to make it worse, knowing that an educated lot like you too are in constant support of all this is really disappointing. Just because we wear shorts and skirts doesn’t mean we’re morally insignificant. A little cleavage show (intentional or non-intentional) doesn’t mean we’re “asking for it”. Although the fact prevails..”men are dogs” cuz wear a simple jeans and Kurti, they still hawk like we’re some ready-to-eat prey. I’m sorry if any of the sentences mentioned caused you any disgust. But that’s the horrendous truth us girls go through every freaking day. And they’re just MY points of view, not representing the entire women in India.. ^^ peace.

    6. Reha

      Woman! I’m on your side against these idiots but please!! Better choice of words! Stop derogating yourself and the rest of us by calling us “materials of entertainment”! What do you mean by saying “I’m sure you don’t want to see her in salwaar kameez”?
      Darling- As a woman of substance, I do not dress a certain way so that its easier on people’s eyes- I dress a certain way because that’s what I think I like! Because I feel good in it! Damn what the people think!
      I hate it when Indian women personify themselves as objects of material desire for men. This is shameful and I refuse to be subjected in that light- I am sure Ms Padukone would agree.
      Secondly- Babber might be incorrect- but please don’t compare showing cleavage with porn.
      I really hope you put some thought into writing before you submit the next time around!

    7. girlpower

      You! Don’t “woman” me here. Like I mentioned, I’m not talking for every girl around the corners of this country. Those were my sole views. And please..no one’s discussing YOUR sense of dressing. So keep it personal. And guess what. I know the merits and demerits of public posting. I’ve contemplated over my words. If you’re not being able to get my posts and the meanings behind them, I suggest you just ignore them. I’m not here to gather sides. I think you should check your comments instead cuz the second half of your original post hardly makes any sense. Plus, I mentioned that he wouldn’t want to see her in salwar kameez “all the time”. Mister Babbar would probably second me on this one cuz his usage of English language is so much better. And, as an adult, I can say that There’s nothing wrong about porn. Its not uncommon to anyone of us. Girl you’re just too cowardly to be open about it. I just meant, if people are so comfortable in watching nude girls on porn, they should be able to accept a little skin show in day to day life as well.. And another important thing, I never symbolised women as “materials of entertainment” and I also didn’t mean that for Deepika Padukone in that direct sense. But now that you mentioned it, let us bring our heads together in this. “she is in the entertainment business” and none can alter that sentence. What do you possibly think an actor’s job is? And actually you’re the one who should choose her words wisely. Because writing “idiots” everywhere might cost you something. No one’s an idiot here for presenting their own specific views. Everybody thinks differently. lastly, your posts are just too loud. So take a break. And constantly blabbering on each and everyone’s post doesn’t make you the only positive activist around here.. Do us a favour, keep your comments general. Don’t go around cussing all of us in here. Its just a healthy discussion.

    8. Reha

      Bwahaahaahaa-
      A) Your need to sit with a dictionary ‘GirlPower’! (hope your name is not buttercup). So many issues- its not ‘for’ every girl- its ‘on-behalf of’. Its also not “if you’re not being able to get my posts” Its, “If you are not able to get the idea behind my posts” or “if you cannot understand my posts”! I’ll leave it here- cause this is the first 4 lines of your entire post and I don’t want to crowd my reply with ‘English Corrections’.

      B) Open the dictionary- my post has some mainstream English words- ‘Girls’ like you (since you aren’t a woman according to you) have problems understanding stuff like that.

      C) Who is cowardly about Porn? Me? Oh I love it! I think its wonderful. Let me say it clearly this time what I intended to say in the original reply to you: Showing Cleavage is not porn It is a style of dressing Therefore- stop equating dressing a certain way with porn . She wasen’t trying to be pornographic when she showed her cleavage in a anarkali dress
      .
      .
      You know what I think: I think you are sweating there, pulling your hair left and right cause you can’t put your thought in words…

      D) “People are comfortable watching nude films so they should be comfortable watching skin show”. What a stupid ass comment seriously. How old are you? 16?

      E) An actor’s job is to ……act… quite frankly. I don’t know which acting school you went to.

      Cuss- you know what it means? It means using foul language- you have posted a total of 4 replies here while I made 1 post and 2 replies. Not be an advocate but everyone sees who’s ranting.. and ranting using incorrect english

      Get a life ‘girl’ (happy now? makes you feel younger?) ohh and while you are it- get a dictionary

    9. girlpower

      Omg.. I faint, I fall, I die xDD . Please take the effort of going through your own comment over and over and over and over again.. People are probably laughing at you. And I’m sticking to my own thread..not bouncing up and down in everyone’s court. And check your grammar, silly. Moreover, you’re trying to correct the correct sentences. At least I’m keeping it simple. You’re hopelessly looking for big words and trying to fit them in every space possible. Relax. This is not an English test. Learn to stick to the topic first. Then speak.
      P.S: no I’m not Buttercup, its Blossom 🙂

    10. Reha

      Aww poor lil terrified girlpower- too helpless to tackle the big bad wolf herself huh? Needs the help of others here to defend what she thinks is right? You don’t think you are convincing enough that you need to hold on to others on this forum to bring me down?
      Bouncing up and down courts! LMFAO- U aren’t a ball dodo- please let me convince you otherwise! I’ll be glad to be of assistance.

      I don’t look for big words- cause I’m not here to fight :)- I wrote a post and you got offended cause you can’t understand the words I used- face it and live with it!

      Umm stick to the topic was what I was doing- posted my thoughts on a post- you are the one who came ranting and raving about “Don’t Woman me” and other pesky shit.

      P.S to your P.S- “no I’m not Buttercup, its Blossom :)”- it should be “No I’m not Buttercup- I’m Blossom” because ‘It’ is used to signify things- hopefully you are not one 😉

    11. girlpower

      Somebody needs to tell you what a figure of speech is. Also, the different structures of forming a sentence. Get a grade 2 grammar book. And FYI, I’m not a thing 🙂 I’m a person. God who am I battling against.. *smirk* goodnight.

    12. Reha

      Darling- You are the one who referred to herself as an ‘It’! I’m the one who had to convince you otherwise.
      Grade 2 grammar book! Sure- Speed-Post me one… once you are done reading it.

      It must be late in your part of the world! Goodnight Luv! Sleeptight!

    13. girlpower

      Yay! How witty, Rhea. I tell you, confusing obnoxious with smart only makes you more dumb. And, the Thesaurus must be your best friend. But I hate to break it to you that you really need to work on your vocabulary skills prior to getting soaked in desperation of trying to prove others wrong. Nobody seems to have taught you the art of sentence-building. You really lack the sense of imagination, dear. It’s crucial in literature. Carry on with whatever you’ve got. (oops! Now You’ll tell me that you can’t be carried on because you’re not a bag.) You know, I love being corrected by intellectual people. It’s informative. But, by you? A diploma in broken English? Sorry, I don’t think so. Chill girl, everybody makes mistakes.

    14. Reha

      Score! So says the ‘girl’ who uses ‘girlpower’ as her handler but addresses women as ‘objects of entertainment’! Bravo Wonderwoman… you rock. Problem with the women in your country- unnecessary bickering- that’s all what you are about.

      Imagination and incorrect objectification of people are poles apart darling. So lets not talk about sentence building. And I am glad you finally found a friend in the dictionary :-)- this post was so much better .
      Now if the constant bickering is over- I’ll get back to the ‘actual posts’.
      Though feel free to continue the endless name calling- seeing young stupid women get worked up and loose cool….it actually feeds my soul ^_^

    15. IndianRapper

      Well, I don’t know that why don’t you celebrate Independence day. But you should celebrate it. Atleast for those who take bullets for us. And yes, I don’t agree with you completely. If you wear bikini and take a walk in beaches of mumbai , then you will look vulgar. Yes! But if you wear bikini and take a walk in Miami beach, you’ll look sexy not vulgar! Just like that, the world that deepika is surround with, is different from the world we live in! She is looking beautiful in this pictures. But leaving all, the cameraman took her picture with flashing cleavage. And even if she wears a salwar kameez, she’ll look beautiful. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 🙁 Good day.

    16. Janani Sathviga

      “why does Ms. Padukone feel the need to show her cleavage in the first place?” well, why shouldn’t she? it is HER body that she is revealing! probably you should have reconsidered what you were saying in the first place, Mr. Babar, and i will tell you why.
      when you say, “is she compensating for her lack of talent through a healthy dose of skin show?”, do you actually mean this, that, more the skin revealed by a person, more talented they are?!!! because that’s the message your statement conveys!
      false notions of beauty have been existing since ages and it is not the cinema that began propagating such notions. haven’t our religions spread enough false notions of beauty, where sculptures of women are carved with perfectly curved bodies and big breasts? have you not come across statues or paintings of naked women? and if those can be accepted in the name of art, why can’t this too be? i agree that objectification of women is wrong (that’s what the TOI has done), but why is revealing one’s own skin still a taboo?
      and you also have said that it is wrong to support an actress who is neither doing social service, nor setting a good example. Really? so you only support people who are social workers and/or set a good example? i wonder what you would do to the ones who are neither, and under which of those two, you fall in!
      you are “sure” that Padukone’s father is not proud of her! when so many people, who are total strangers to her, are supporting her in this case, why would her father not be proud of her? he is probably proud of the reply that she had given to the TOI!

    17. Babar

      well, why shouldn’t she? it is HER body that she is revealing!

      Maybe all women should go topless then, and when they get arrested for indecency, they can tell the police about how men can go shirtless without being arrested, or even better, it is their body that they are revealing.

      do you actually mean this, that, more the skin revealed by a person, more talented they are?!!!

      Please work on your comprehension skills.

      haven’t our religions spread enough false notions of beauty, where sculptures of women are carved with perfectly curved bodies and big breasts? have you not come across statues or paintings of naked women?

      When did I say that naked paintings are acceptable in any way or form? How does having nude paintings justify the indecency in Bollywood? How does one wrong act justify another?

      so you only support people who are social workers and/or set a good example?

      No, but I certainly don’t go all out in blind support of someone who is harming a generation of people when she knows that she is a role model for many, and her acts are emulated by a number of people, girls in this case. She is setting a bad example for girls to follow, due to which I choose not to support her.

      you are “sure” that Padukone’s father is not proud of her!

      Please read my comment closely. I said he would not be proud of her pictures, and yes, he would not be proud of the fact that she chooses to dress scantily.

    18. Reha

      Dear Baber,
      Yes! If the women decide to go topless- lets leave it at their choice! That decision does not constitute of a statutory agreement to a rape though- does it? I thought its better to ask… since you are the voice of men (sic)

      Indecency in bollywood stems from the recent ‘show of cleavage’ from Ms Podukone? Really? Zeenat Aman showed her breasts to the public 40 odd years ago- Did you see her movies?
      Ohh Ohh… my favorite is kamasutra.. do see the magnificent Rekha in it.

      Since Sharukh Khan made six Pack abs now- I am assuming the entire ‘boys’ clan should be a epitome of fitness… inspiring generations of men aren’t we? Or are the girls alone signifying dodoism (I just made it up since you track correct english usage)?

      You are sucha spokesman of Mr Prakash Padukone! Amazing how closely you know him! Let me re-iterate: What Mr Padukone thinks of his daughter should be none of our concern! Let me tell you what my father thinks: He thinks that the salwar suit and the saree are the most stupid garments. Reason 1) The dupatta keeps falling hence revealing the cleavage (I am sure you won’t be a happy camper) and daresay if the frount of the kameez is a little stark to deep- then what? 2) The saree basically shows the stomach, back and cleavage of the women sporting it! I am seen horribly fat and ugly aunties wearing short blouses.

      Lastly: Since you mentioned in one of the other posts about how you would prefer seeing Deepika Padukone in a salwaar kameez: The actual picture used by TOI in the “OMG Cleavage” article was in a salwaar kameez 🙂

      You are welcome:

      Sincerely:
      A proud woman who is not answerable to the world on what she wears

    19. Janani Sathviga

      Mr. Babar, yes ! as long as the women are comfortable in going topless, they can go topless. my comprehension skills! i am very sure that i have not misinterpreted your statement. one wrong act cannot justify another, right, but DP showing off her cleavage is not even a wrong act! “She is setting a bad example for girls to follow”. Seriously?! your argument cannot get lamer! lastly, you say Deepika’s father “would not be proud of the fact that she chooses to dress scantily”! OMG!!? who are you? you should either be her father itself or a blabbermouth!

    20. Babar

      Reha,

      That decision does not constitute of a statutory agreement to a rape though- does it?

      Where did anyone start a discussion on rape in this thread?

      Indecency in bollywood stems from the recent ‘show of cleavage’ from Ms Podukone? Really?

      Where did I state that indecency in Bollywood is due to Ms. Padukone’s cleavage show?

      I thought its better to ask… since you are the voice of men (sic)

      Where did anyone mention that? Or maybe you need to learn the usage of (sic).

      Since Sharukh Khan made six Pack abs now- I am assuming the entire ‘boys’ clan should be a epitome of fitness

      It seems as though you have not noticed the bodybuilding craze of late. Furthermore, many youngsters have also taken up smoking, courtesy of Bollywood. I agree that Bollywood stars do not ask to be emulated, neither are they asking to be seen as role models, but at the end of the day, that is what they are.

      (I just made it up since you track correct english usage)?

      Yet another blatant lie.

      The actual picture used by TOI in the “OMG Cleavage” article was in a salwaar kameez

      I think you have not seen Deepika’s countless other pictures, or the way she dresses up in movies. As for wanting to wear what you want, try going topless without getting arrested, even in the western world. Maybe then you can draw comparisons about how men can also go shirtless and it is okay.

    21. nikita

      She can stand naked if she wants and still not invite your comments and stares.
      Understand what the author says.
      He’s trying to tell you that what TOI has done is similar to saying that a girl wearing short skirt is asking to get raped.

    22. Reha

      You must be kidding me! The world of bollywood is filled with cleavage shows! Ooh laa laa ooh laa laa! What Mr Padukone feels is none of anyone’s business! I cannot even believe this is happening in India. We don’t need a ISIS to actually destroy this country- we have enough idiots in that country already- idiots like you who think a woman’s choice of clothes should be a matter of national debate or else she should be ready to be called a whore!
      Fact: While developing from an embryo, the anus is the first actual body part to be formed, therefore we are all mere assholes when we started.
      Another Fact: Men and women like you never developed further and remain assholes.

    23. Captain Logic

      Thank you! 🙂

    24. Annika

      It is her choice and something that regressive people like you dont understand. People like you probably think it is your birthright to line up on the streets eve-teasing any girl or woman who passed by, because you think you freedom to do that.

    25. Monalisa

      “I would, however, like to ask, why does Ms. Padukone feel the need to show her cleavage in the first place?”
      There’s a certain beauty connected to skin show. Think of nude paintings or the sculptures at Khajuraho, and you’l know what I mean. A woman’s body packs in more beauty than just an invitation for sex. A visible cleavage or legs or midriff could be perceived either as a lure or as a healthy manifestation of a woman’s beautiful assets, depending on what kind of education the perceiver has been brought up with, as well as how aesthetically the wearer decides to exhibit her assets. I’m sure anyone would see the difference between a Deepika Padukone showing off her cleavage and a pornstar showing off hers. The “invitation” lies in the eyes, not between the breasts. But when one decides to overlook everything else (Deepika was wearing a full length anarkali, I think) and talk about the cleavage alone…are we too blind to see that there’s a problem? What about “OMG Deepika’s pretty smile” or “lovely eyes”? That cleavage is a part of her body, and it’s beautiful, covered or revealed. The objectification of Bollywood women, commercialization of the beauty industry…well that’s a whole new debate that needs a different time and a different place to be discussed in. But we should first stop perceiving women’s bodies as obvious sex objects, and learn to appreciate the beauty of it instead, albeit in a more respectful manner. And I assure you, covering up of the cleavage, whether in public or private, is not, and will never be the solution, or there might come a time when even a visible toenail on a woman would be deemed an invitation for sex.

    26. nj

      Let us do a simple comparison.
      What will your reaction be if TOI puts the photo of some woman “Miss Y” in your own family and highlight the lips and say “Red Lips”.
      Now people can always ask
      Why did “Miss Y” go out without wearing “Parda”
      Why did she wear a red lipstick.
      Why is “Miss Y” going to beauty parlor

      But what people asking this questions should know is that : 1) We are leaving in an independent country and people have the right to do what they like.
      2) Media is powerful, But that power should not be mis-utilised to intimidate others, if they have not done anything illegal. Especially for making cheap sensation. Its against indian constituency.
      3) I don’t care about Deepika and I am not a big fan of her. But when she showed the guts to stand up against the group like “TOI” ( Its not the only person TOI has targeted) we should be appreciating her rather than insulting her.

    27. tulika

      I always hate your comments Mr. BABAR…..Being a human both men and women have right to go naked or to treat dr body da way dey want but no one else has a right to make abusive comments…..

    28. Manish

      Mr Babar.
      You are replying pointwise and clarifying your viewpoint with almost a bureaucratic efficiency.

      When it suits you, you give us a lecture on worldwide morality (obviously stemming from your world encompassing knowledge).

      At other times you give one liners that make you sound like the stern male patriarch.

      You ask, “Why does she feel the need to show her cleavage in the first place?”
      You know there’s a young guy on ToI comments section going about “Good women will remove clothes only in front of their husbands”
      “If she can show it in movies then what is the problem if ToI says it”

      He does it in English that is incomparable to yours but I am afraid that the two of you will make a nice team.

      You give us the crap about “What we do in public is different from what we do in private”
      This is the kind of reasoning that makes you sound like one of those kind-faced patriarchs who turn out to be child molesters.

      Here’s what i want to convey to you:
      Inteligent-sounding people like you should spend their energies on taking positive stances that would bring about the changes we need as a society.
      We in india have this acute problem when a huge majority of guys have the mentality to ask “Whats wrong in staring if there’s nothing wrong in showing”. Mind you that this show can be even in a skirt or even in your humble anarkali.

      If you can take a stand against what ToI has done and re-done then lets see why you do that or why you won’t?

      Taking us on your “let all women go topless then…i dint mention this or that…its all the conspiracy of fashion and lifestyle industry” train is not helping.

      Or do you propose we go to the era your namesake started..?

  4. Yudi

    This is the stupidest reply possible. Dear author, if you think you’re being clever by saying that some ‘non-mainstream media outlets’ don’t use sensationalism to get noticed on the internet, then the irony of your own headline is lost on you.

    No, the TOI is not right trying to justify its acts. Yes, the headline was the problem. And that is what DP objected to. Neither did she say why are they carrying my picture, nor did she not want them to carry the picture as she herself had posed for them. It was the headline. A cheap one at that. And that is what TOI should apologize for.

    This entire issue has become a problem because of people like YOU. With your own brilliant interpretations and unwanted additions to the issue at hand. Where, in God’s name, does it come out that TOI said she was asking for it? Its because of attention hungry idiots like you that journalism gets a bad name.

    1. nikita

      Are you blind?
      And its because of you that articles such as that of Ms.Priya Gupta get published.
      Duffer.

    2. Yudi

      Would you have been happier with such a reply:

      We at TOI apologize for the crass headline that accompanied the article posted by our entertainment. We apologize to Deepika as it wasn’t our intention to hurt her sentiments. We routinely keep posting images of celebrities in their glamorous avtars and will continue to do so, without using any words which might cause any undue disrespect or indirectly/directly affect them.

      That much from a newspaper should suffice. That was their mistake. I personally think it would be wrong to attach a greater blame (that of moral policing) to a newspaper alone. We’re all twisted in our own ways. We’re all hypocritical at times. Yes we drool and yes we denunciate all the time. We as a society have degraded. The constant need of people to be in the news (just thought of pointing out that Bombay times, and all other such supplements, are all full of paid PR done by these celebs) comes with the price of being scrutinized by all. Which is not a good thing. But its a vicious circle. One which is not the creation of one particular orgainzation.

      They publish, we buy. They get themselves clicked, we have to see what they’re looking like. Its all of us who take the blame.

      I apologize to author for my strong comments. I just feel that as journalists, they have a bigger responsibility of influencing readers. So they should post facts more and based opinions less.

      Then again, this is just my opinion. Don’t want to offend anyone.

  5. jpdas

    point of dissent to TOI’S POST seems to verge at Times of India’s moral policing & the subservient way the media gets into its own trap of Publicity, before long it forgets to address the news in objective manner rather than whom it seems to represents. I am sorry to say that TOI doesn’t represent many Indians view as right to opinion is something which even a leading newspaper of the country can ignore at its own peril.But now the vestige lies with TOI to apologize for blatant denial of individual choice & opinion even when it has served Deepika’s purpose than itself.

  6. Anubhav Das

    This is shocking, donot talk about anything if you seriously donot have respect for women the journalist will not do it with his or her mother, sister or girlfriend right. You call this journalism this is bullshit. And then people say Deepika did this for publicity comeon guys grow up just coz of this we will show our suport to her by watching the movie? How smart is that? Till the time we have such people in India kuchh nahi hone wala is desh ka. Case shud b lodged against them.

  7. The Joker

    Deepika’s whoredom for stardom.

  8. Ash

    Good Article. And here’s my rant against TOI : Filthy, dirty. unbelievable TOI. I wish I could use stronger words but that would be descending to a new level of gutter currently inhabited by its kind of journalism. Deepika Padukone, a fabulously beautiful woman, had no issues with any of the pictures she had posed for – each and every pic of her’s only served to remind us how stunning she is and all of us had nothing but appreciation for her gorgeousness. And then, TOI degraded her pic with – OMG Deepika’s Cleavage show!! ……OMG? really? what’s so OMG about it? that she has cleavage? and why such a dated pic? what is DP, a commodity so her lady parts can be commented on with impunity on a national newspaper? Is TOI trying to ‘compete’ with porn media digitally – you know, for sensationalism? If so – congratulations TOI. Congratulations.

  9. Reha

    Reading the actual article and all the ‘clarification’ articles that followed, here is my issue: What is wrong with you people?
    A) You want bullet trains in your country so you can compete with nations like USA, Japan and UK in the ‘modernization sector’
    B) What one of the actresses wore (note: its not different from the countless others like her in the industry) becomes a matter of national debate.

    One word: Hypocrites! This is utter blasphemy!!

    Lets talk bollywood since we are at it. Where were the TOI group and the other moral idiots like the ones here when Zenat Aman was roaming around showing nipples in Satyam Shivam Sundaram? Where were you when Mandakini was showing her stark naked breasts in Ram Teri Ganga Maili or when Simmi Grewal gave a full nude shot in frount of the young Rishi Kapoor? Pieces of “Historical Art”, were they?
    Why weren’t you ranting and raving when Sunny Leone- a porn industry breakfast staple made her entry into the bollywood scene or when Sherlyn Chopra released Kamasutra 3D.
    When your children dance to ‘Munni Badnam Hui” or shake their botty to “Sheila ki Jawani”, do any of you actually take to the social media to raise objections on what kids are hearing and learning? Why dosen’t the censor board of India actually R Rate these songs? “I know you want it but you’re never gonna get it” is what exactly? The kids should know.
    However, you are definitely concerned about what an actress is wearing to her ‘public’ events.
    Get a life! is all I can say!

    1. Reha

      correction: Booty 😀

  10. romita sondhi

    I wonder when the young men of India have such an accurate and balanced view of justice n norms both social and ethical…..and I personally know many…..why is India on the pinnacle of sexism n violence against women…….there was a time TOI was an esteemed read but that seems to have faded down the lane with our country’s self esteem…. I am optimistic however when I site articles like these that India will pull through this transitional phase of violence vs rationale not unscathed but much the wiser for its strife…….

    1. Arun

      how can you play football if you are scared of falling down. I love football and i enjoy if i fall down or if someone comment if i played bad or good . If you want to be cool ( want to wear quarter of a dress or just wrap a handkerchief around ur waist and walk ) you should have the mentality to take comment in a joking way and give the feedback in the same way . And in this case i wish the actress would have been from Hollywood, i am sure she would have replied in a manner that would have been funny and she would not have created this shit mesh. And I have a gut feeling that deepika did this intentionally but that wont stop me from watching any of her movies because i enjoy stories of any kind. to TOI – you guys are reputed and i have respect for all media because they keep us updated. I request you not to throw stones on shit or else you get shit. To Deepika – Earn money and do add with dignity . Dont be Rakhi . You are reputed too. To audience – I request you guys not to relate these fantasy with women empowerment and rape victims(just to make your comment more likable) because they are the real heroes.

    2. Manish

      The enlightened moral youth you think you are seeing is just a fraction of the real deal that gets to read/write english articles on dailies and internet. There is still the majority that doesn’t get to put their act together regarding girls/women.
      These are a minority and it doesn’t matter what they say..

  11. Jyoti

    BTW i tried to post the following comment on the TOI article & it wont let me… cause it has inappropriate content – Read it there are no swear words .. I did use the word cleavage.. Do you think they had a problem with that? They should use arrows to point out areas of poblem.. ohh…..

    “She never had a probem with the pics she did have a problem with the sensationalist and rather silly headline !! OMG Cleavage… ermmm so yeah?? what was that about.. You know TOI just fess up, you are incompetent in using social media clearly. Stop trying to make it about her pics.. your arguments are so shallow & not even addressing the issue she had with the headline .She has a cleavage she is not ashamed of it.. You are just carrying on the idiosyncrasy ..
    The IRONY of the article – We are ANTI MORAL POLICING LOL!!! Are you kidding me .. did you proof read your little “I am going to put you in your place Miss Deepika article” before you came up with that gem ??!

    & oh just because a woman wrote this article doesnt make your arguments deeper/ well researched.. Do some serious journalism TOI… & btw I and my friends are boycotting you guys .. Just saying Congrats!

    And oh yeah … I am a woman , i am proud of my body.. OMG I have a cleavage .. are you going to encircle my lady parts & put it up with arrows pointing ? That is demeaning .. maybe you didnt get that memo. You know cause i did pose for all those selfies.. Geez maybe i was asking for it?
    Get smarter people to handle your social media content TOI.period.”

  12. Bleh

    Some really interesting responses and this might be a forum which I will also use later for other issues. Reha clearly stands out with her logic and arguments. But here is my take on this whole thing.
    1. I don’t think TOI was slut shaming. If you have ever gone through the entertainment pages of the online version, there are many ‘articles’ and slide shows related to cleavage, lingerie, sex and other such topics primarily to titillate the reader. So the reader is the voyeur and the article presents the object of pleasure—in this case Deepika.
    2. It was unclear from Deepika’s tweet as to what her objection was for. I assume it was because TOI had zoomed in on her cleavage, much as the male gaze often zooms in on a woman’s bossom. Since it was not just Deepika’s cleavage on show but a whole host of actresses’, I again assume no one was particularly slut shaming her. Which brings us to the main point—should the media pay attention to an actresses assets? The answer is an unequivocal yes. The media reflects a particular need of the society. And indeed there is nothing wrong with some obsessions and fantasies, sexualized or not. Just as the British media focuses on Kate (and even Harry) or say the US media goes about with Rihanna’s carribean bikini pics, the Indian media should also have the freedom to sleaze up things. Because, if we don’t are we not becoming the moral police ourselves.
    Consider TOI being restricted to only commenting on the movies Deepika has been in so far. We don’t have Roger Eberts so some run of the mill reviewer will have to do. One can again question whether s/he is qualified enough to perform a review. Again, if TOI zooms in on Deepika’s assets from Cocktail, are they again not serving the same purpose? The real Deepika and the reel Deepika are the same person. It is the same body. So yeah, if she does a nude scene for a movie, we will see the nude Deepika, not a ‘nude’ Jane or Mary or whoever Deepika may be playing in the movie. So her reel vs real argument doesn’t stand.
    Long story short, Deepika has a cleavage and IMO the media ought to capture it in film if given a chance.
    3. Her point about zooming in on a man’s crotch also doesn’t stand scrutiny. Simply because the male anatomy is not revered enough or appealing enough to both males (mostly) and females (again mostly). Ideally everything should be equal but it isn’t, be it social conditioning or just genes. Simply look at all the haute coutre shows going on in Paris. 1 in 3 will have some female nudity while it would be rare to find one with unclothed males. Or look at the classical paintings. The female form is appreciated, the male form is at best acknowledged. So a newspaper wanting readers will be just turning people off with crotch shots.
    4. Morality is a tricky subject as there are no absolutes. Is anything related to sexuality immoral? Is pornography immoral? Is incest immoral? Is homosexuality immoral? The list can go on. Similarly if an actress has a nude scene (or a scene wearing a bikini) and the viewer replays that scene over and over for pleasure, is s/he being immoral? Should s/he have considered the scene only in the context of the movie? Again, Deepika’s posts do not help clear the blur between morality and immorality.
    I rest my case….:)

    1. miriam

      wow. you’re an idiot.
      Addressing your stupidity one point at a time:
      1. The problem is that any media outlet showcasing ANY woman’s ‘assets’ (what a degrading word!) is a part of the whole ‘sexual objectification’ problem. It shouldn’t focus on any woman’s cleavage, ass or any part that in some way provides a voyeuristic sense of pleasure to the reader – to condone that would be akin to condoning the Peeping Tom behaviour which is so prevalent in our current society.
      2. ” Which brings us to the main point—should the media pay attention to an actresses assets? The answer is an unequivocal yes. The media reflects a particular need of the society. And indeed there is nothing wrong with some obsessions and fantasies, sexualized or not.”
      The apparent need to fantasise or obsess about sexually objectified PEOPLE has been created by the media and people of (clearly) lower intelligence. The film industry shouldn’t be allowed to make a profit on an actor’s 6 pack or an actress’ hot legs and toned cleavage/tummy/ass/thighs. But you guys, the audience, want to see all that so you can fantasise all you want in your sick, twisted little minds that dehumanises the person on screen – or in a magazine. It comes from your ideology that it is fine to take just the ‘assets’ of a person and leave the bit that makes them human outside the door. No human being is supposed to serve your sick needs or wants. Sure, the actresses do it willingly – but the question is whether they should be even asked to do it so the production house can make good on its investments. One cannot cry out against the prevalent rape culture and yet demand the freedom to sexually OBJECTIFY another human being.
      And as for your nonsensical statements about how the US and the UK do it, therefore India can do it too – I don’t even know where to begin to show you that is a ridiculous thought process. The US and the UK at one time believed in Imperialism, slavery etc. And guess which country (amongst many others) was once terrorised by those ideals? If you guessed India, you would be right. So would you propagate and consider those ideas as absolute, ethical and moral? Are you so incapable of an original and progressive thought that you find a slave-like need to follow in the footsteps of another country? Those countries are not exempt from their citizens being enraged about the sexual objectification of males and females in their media either. It is a global problem and one that is faced mostly in countries that have a patriarchal society.
      3. Again, the media shouldn’t be trying to appease your need to look at the ‘female form’ and be pleased by it. Simply because that’s a disgusting thing to do. Unless you’re the kind of person who is quite incapable of looking at a female or male as something more than a face or a ‘hot body’.
      4. Pornography has been proven to be detrimental to the progress of women and exists simply to fill in a man’s sexual urges. And that, you unbelievably backward arse, is not the job of any woman. No woman should be exploited (even in your heads) so you can jerk off to her in your secret little space. A woman’s sole purpose is not ensure you can have and keep your hard-on.
      Is incest immoral? How is that even a question in today’s society? Even if you take morality out of the question, its scientifically unhealthy for any byproduct of an incestous relationship. Bringing morality back in, society has given a certain role to all members of the family build up. Father, mother, brother, sister, aunt, uncle, cousin etc. A Father who sleeps with his little girl not only dishonours the role he is supposed to play but destroys his child mentally and emotionally. Same as a mother who would sexually abuse her son or daughter. Or a brother who thinks of his sister as a practice tool during and for his time of sexual exploration.
      Homosexuality is not immoral. It has biological reasons for coming about – the biological make up of the homosexual person. That is not even question of morality. (You’re quite an ignorant and stupid person – and I don’t think I could say that enough!)
      And as to your final lines, he shouldn’t be viewing Deepika’s or Kate’s or any other woman’s body as a sexual outlet in any context – in or out of media outlets.
      And on an incredibly personal note – do humanity a favour and please do not procreate. Any version of you is not necessary at all.

    2. Sangeeta

      Whoa! Loved your replies to all the mentally-sick points made above:-) Especially the one about incest, how can anyone NOT say its wrong??

    3. Manish

      Wow..That was freaking awesome..
      Judging from the effort that Bleh put in his/her initial statements, I hope he/she can sieve through the personal attacks(quite understandable) you’ve made and actually get to the bottom of your reply which is about objectification of women. It has been perpetrated throughout times and world, that doesn’t make it obligatory for women to have no problems in being viewed as some sort of medival war trophies or a source of viewer entertainment/pleasure irrespective of their privacy..

      Its sad that people who appear quite capable of deep insight from what they write are also capable of coming up with convoluted logics to convince themselves and others.

      lastly, what TOI did and is continuning to do is not really defendable.(arrow marksss…seriously??!!) So fellas, Please don’t take a shot at it..

    4. bleh

      Err, firstly personal attacks are a rather weak form of defense. You should first look at the definition of stupidity and then react. It is easy to simply destroy your arguments. Easy…real easy. Lets start with your rebuttals.
      1. Have you heard of Freud? Or Jung? Or and others of repute? I would not think so. Do you know of the Oedipus complex or is that too intellectual for you? Or taboo maybe? Then maybe you should peruse Totem and Taboo. Might be insightful. Voyeurism or rather fantasies are a part of the psyche. Nope, no moral high ground possible in your unconscious. Too bad, ain’t it?
      2. Jerking off or masturbation is considered a valid form of sexual release. There is no correlation with masturbation and rape, and trust me, even though you seem to feel it is wrong to objectify or sexualize images or scenarios, that is what one does when one masturbates. Be an adult and deal with it.
      3. This is not an India vs the West question. If you think that way, you are being biased and ignorant. It is a question of personal freedom and freedom of speech, and of the press. If you think those freedoms should be restricted, then you are by yourself, joined perhaps by erstwhile pseudo-communist countries. Again no one is talking about absolute freedom. But once you start curbing the freedom of the press, you are entering dangerous ground.
      4. So incest is not just between parents and children. It is also between cousins, and between nephews and aunts etc. Tell me why is it morally wrong? The adults may be consenting, right? The examples you give are of children, which is considered pedophilia and statutory rape. Why? Because children are not capable of providing consent. You know the word consent, right? As for genetics, no one is saying these people who engage in incest need to produce offsprings. And again, would you say that people who have a cancer gene or a gene for smoking or alcoholism should stop reproducing? Now that is dumb! Since that would start excluding half the world.
      See, the issue is you need to think a bit more broadly. Not just repeat stuff you have read off some random website. Hope it’s not too late for you.
      5. Would you then think that homosexuality is immoral if it were not genetically determined? Lesbianism is not determined by genes but is more of a choice/ social factors. Is it then immoral? Again terrible terrible logic. Go back to high school, and read more. And maybe your comments would improve.
      6. Last point, though it is simply too easy to counter you. “Pornography has been proven to be detrimental to the progress of women and exists simply to fill in a man’s sexual urges.” Where is the proof? Any references? Yes, some feminist authors have said that. Again others have argued for the sexual freedom of women to engage in any profession, be it prostitution or becoming an adult star. Ever read that? Bleh….

    5. Sangeeta

      UNITY,

      “Coming from the horse’s mouth” – you do not know anything about me to make such a statement. I do not defend for the sake of defending – I would not spend time writing these comments if I did not believe in it, that is something you should know about me. India’s culture and beliefs – there are many layers to a culture – and a culture progresses too – so I am talking about current modern day culture – not ancient rules of 100 years ago. India is at crossroads between eastern and western cultures – there are things we emulate from the west, but there are things we stay away from – for any reason. That is our current culture – e.g. The West believes in publicising a politician’s extra-marital affairs to shame him, but here in India, its not a big issue in a politician’s career. That is our mindset. Similiarly, we may have girls wearing revealing clothes, but to pass lewd remarks on her body in public domain is not something we are comfortable with. (Atleast the Indians I know, but yes there is a world of people like you who put all girls in one bracket.) There are many more examples I can give of the subtle differences between here and the West, but I since its off-topic would like to end here.

    6. Sangeeta

      Your comment is completely ambiguous, in your world nothing is wrong. Deepika’s objection is not against her pictures, but against the newspaper’s attempt to guide readers to look at her cleavage, by zooming in on it with a comment. You often quote western media as if it is always right, why should the Indian media blindly follow what they do? India has a different culture and set of beliefs.

    7. bleh

      There are rights and wrongs but nothing is absolute. In India, there is a sect called the Aghoris who practice a similar belief. Consider a simple situation. There is a airplane about to crash into a town because the controls have become bad. To save the town you must blast the airplane. Or be prepared for casualties on the ground. What would be the moral thing to do?
      When we eat a goat or a chicken, are we not depriving the animal of its life? When you were born, did you automatically know what is right and what is wrong? Again, the sense of right and wrong depends on societies. So no, there is no absolute morality and no rights and wrongs. Prove me incorrect and I will agree.
      Again, this thing about India’s culture. Sanskriti you say. What exactly is it? An artifact of Victorian times? Again, do you think it is wrong to look at the cleavage of a woman? Or is it wrong to wear a cleavage revealing dress? As for my answer, no—both are not wrong. Provided said person ‘looking’ is not making lewd remarks or acting in a similar manner, looking/ seeing/ observing is not wrong. Consider for example witnessing an act of crime, say a pickpocketing. Is it wrong to look at the pickpocket simply because he is a wrongdoer according to law. Hope these examples will suffice…

    8. Sangeeta

      I agree that argument about rights and wrongs can be endless — what is right in one society is wrong in another. The point you make about making lewd remarks “Provided said person ‘looking’ is not making lewd remarks or acting in a similar manner, looking/ seeing/ observing is not wrong.” — that is exactly what Deepika is protesting against — The headline “OMG!! Deepika’s cleavage show!” with an accompanying arrow is what was lewd. The actress has posed for millions of much more revealing pictures, but the crudeness of the remark was what we can call “objectifying”. And the justifications in the recent article saying that she started off as a model for a liquor company, accompanied by all her revealing pictures — the newspaper is thus claiming that what she was doing was lewd, hence any lewd remarks should be overlooked. THATS what this protest is about, like a woman getting raped is asking for it, since she is wearing revealing clothes. Tomorrow, if anything similar happens to an actress who posed in revealing clothes, can we say she asked for it? Hence any such insinuations (however small they may be at this point) should be nipped in the bud, which is what this protest is about.

    9. Unity

      Wow…”India has different culture and set of beliefs”..can you focus some light on what sort of culture & belief you are talking about?? and see who’s talking this, coming direct from horse mouth 🙂 ..I am not being a chauvinist nor do i support male domination to say the least but it really saddens me soulfully that how girls(especially current generation) employ tactics to justify their actions, beliefs, statements etc based on a reference which otherwise they even don’t want to talk about, it is clearly understandable that girls use same set of facts, references or any source of information interchangeably to their benefits & justification of being correct..though this is a gender-neutral human tendency but girls do it better in this…If girls have belief in cultural values, how many of them do actually follow it to at-least an acceptable extent ?? Again, I am really not against equal rights for both genders but don’t defend blindly for the sake of defending..

    10. bleh

      Pretty much agree with most of what you said. As I had written before, my assumption is that TOI did not resort to slut shaming and as Reha pointed out in a number of her posts including the last one, that revealing pictures of celebrities and smaller stars are commonplace.
      Speaking of objectification, let us take for the sake of argument her ads for Kingfisher. Or for deBeers (think she was there at some point). In both cases she is selling her glamour for making people buy the product. In essence she is objectifying herself. Definitionally objectification means treating a person as a tool for another’s purposes. In the case of said ads, it is for the sake of the company. She is not portraying art, nor is she playing a character.
      Just as an “item number” is crass, the article in TOI (wasn’t even an article) was simply vulgar and crass. But much of what we encounter in media space is this.
      The protest is fine and a woman (or a man or a child) being sexually harassed, assaulted, robbed or raped (put in any heinous crime) is never asking for it. But the idea is misguided and Deepika just played on public sentiments to further her own cause. This whole issue goes back to the age old concept of marketing and being cool. Remember all our favorite male stars having the hairiest of chests and flaunting the skinniest of bodies? Or their female counterparts not having to hit the gym every so often? Nothing wrong with feminism and its need in society but there is such a thing as overplaying the card.
      Just one last example of doing things the right way. Sania Mirza was getting a lot of flak for marrying the man of her choice from Pakistan and then being made the ambassador of her state. When asked by the media whether she is being taunted because she is a woman, she replied that being a woman has nothing to do with the matter. I wonder what Deepika might have said?

    11. Sangeeta

      Agree that as a model, she is selling her glamour for a product. But the issue is not about her work. Two points: After the Delhi gangrape issue, TOI and their TV channel TIMES NOW had made tall claims about respecting women, now a website of the same company claims a model/actress is asking for lewd comments, because she anyway poses for revealing pictures. That is double standards. TOI is not a trashy tabloid (or atleast is not marketed as such). Times group should be responsible for everything its child companies/publications publish. Second point – The said picture for which the crude remark was made, was not a picture she posed for in that specific angle – it was a top angle taken without her consent – it can happen to anyone -man or woman – that a picture taken from an awkward angle reveals a part of the body unintentionally – using that to attract attention is simply not befitting of a publication like TOI.

    12. Reha

      Lets start off by saying I partially actually agree with Bleh. The original article was nothing out of the other countless which get published every day. This is not the first time an actress or actor’s personal conduct was bought out in the limelight- we’ve all seen Kareena and Shahid’s slutty pictures making rounds among st endless other examples.
      The outcry, however, started on the so called ‘reply’ TOI published to Ms Padukone’s twitter comment. They singled out an actress and then published a shaming article regarding her past projects (read: kingfisher) and her seemingly obvious consent to being regarded as public shaming property of TOI as and when they pleased.
      My personal issues are not with the initial article- they wrote something crappy, which all newspapers and print media regularly do and its nothing new. A similar treatment is seen with the cricketing community in India; One win and they are heroes while one loss and the whole media is analyzing the performance of the shamed cricketer.
      Originally, if the later article did not publish, I would have agreed that leaving aside some serious proof reading and editorial workmanship, the article wasn’t a big deal. At the same time,Ms Padukone’s response was also justified since she read something about herself she did not like and she was entitled to an opinion.
      This is where the events should have stopped, being a national editorial, TOI should not have published the shockingly naive and immature response. It looked like they were playing name calling back and forth. They not only published the response, but a senior editor also gave OK to a silly ladies ego centric publication.
      Actors and people holding public capacity surely owe the society some responsibility. However, the society should not be sheep walking behind ignorant veils. If Ms Podukone decided to wear a certain dress, it is her personal judgement which preceded that decision. At the same time, I am sure she definitely realizes that people see her in different lights; there are mothers who aspire to have daughters like her, daughters who aspire to be as beautiful like her, men who fantasize her and men who desire her. To think she is unaware that her pictures are being used for recreational purposes would be naive. She certainly is aware of all the above and so are the other actor/actresses working in an equal capacity.

      Bottom line of the discussion is:
      To the Indian Media: please use better judgement before writing high school replies to your masala articles.
      To the Indian Public: Please stop over-reacting. It was a spat of words and TOI handled it incorrectly.

    13. bleh

      @Manish….
      Oh, I am not agreeing to disagree. Simply because you are wrong.
      Where does Maslow come in? Throwing names is not helping your case. And you see, psychology or even social psychology is not just a fancy theory to be flipped around in academia. It describes the human mind, and human behavior in social circles. Consider the reaction of a mob blaming a child for stealing bread vs an individual. These reactions are very different and this is what psychology tells us, through countless experiments and controlled tests. Don’t confuse the sciences with the arts. The arts is subjective, science is not.

      I wish the small town guys were here to defend themselves. But let us not generalize. You portray them as uncouth barbarians who are always looking to satisfy their sexual urges. But wasn’t India just one big “small town” back in the day? And why should the baser desires of a sophisticated man be any different from a small town guy? A crime is always a crime. High profile cases of rape in India get shuttered up, while the small town guys are screwed because it is easy to nail them.
      With the Delhi rape, which everyone seems to be talking about all the time: why is someone not recognizing that it is at the end of the day a crime perpetrated by criminals? No your average Joe won’t be raping women, just as he won’t be stealing from houses and robbing people at gunpoint. And FYI, Delhi also has the highest violent crime rate (read murders) in India (at least it did the last time I went through the crime bureau stats). And of course there is a correlation…the rule of law is lax, so any crime goes unpunished there. There could of course be many more reasons as well which I am not going to deliberate here.

      Your attitude towards the ‘poorer’ folk leaves much to be desired. You seem to suggest that the net savvy Indian male lies far above these petty squabbles, deeply understands the plight of women and aids them in their need. Except the net savvy male is often confused and paying lip service to an ideal which he doesn’t even know that well.
      I would request you to go to any village in India and spend a day in a house leaving your door unlocked (if there is a door). Carry a host of valuables with you. There is a much higher probability of things not being stolen in the village than in your own city. Not just in India, but this statistic is valid throughout the world. You are much safer in these ‘small towns’ where our supposed uncouth brothers and sisters come from. Now, if your basic premise is faulty, do I need to go on?

    14. Vorminious

      Man Bleh you’ve clearly won the internet. I have never seen someone destroying noobs and feminists with such panache, you’ve won a fan today. 😀
      Also people who are saying sexual objectification is a ‘shouldn’t’, you are no different from the males who say women ‘shouldn’t’ wear a certain kind of clothes. :3

    15. Manish

      What is the victory about Vormininous??

      Feminists, noobs, sexual objectification and a whole bunch of fancy words can be resorted to if we want to trivialize the issue at hand and begin a psychology based analysis of our country’s problems with women, sex and naked bodies.

      Thats what this thread has gone into.
      We can all sit back and talk about how an actor’s assets can be sensationalized by the media bcause it is a human need, lets discuss Maslow’s hierarchy.

      We can talk of how incest is not immoral because right and wrongs are relative..so on and so forth..

      But by celebrating this supposed victory (I still dont know what u r celebrating) whose side is it that you are taking? Whose side is it that Bleh is taking? As intellectuals(I’ll make assumptions because of course we dont know each other..:)), what are you trying to tell us?

      As someone who sounds an expert in psychology or related fields what does bleh suggest to the feminist and noobs who have objection to objectification of women?

      Acocording to me, people have problem with objectification because the way our media, bollywood etc has started portraying women has somehow gone far beyond the comprehension of general Indian male mind (and i am not talking about the net-savvy young generation who is expected to know right from wrong).
      Isnt there a whole majority of young indians who see these on-screen antics and feel that its normal?

      Isn’t there a profile of the typical young guy hailing from a small-town, without any significant reading to guide him except maybe cheap hindi novels of the “mastraam” genre..!! 😮

      What alternative do you suggest if the noobs point out that the problem is stemming from this difference of the levels of understanding??

      Whose sides do you, bleh and the enlightened group takes when ToI has the impunity to defend their action by posting another bucket load of arrow marks saying “See, you’ve done this before..we see your cleavage everyday..u r doing it for publicity”

      We can agree to disagree if you can provide an alternative cause of the problem. (Bleh especially)

    16. bleh

      @Vorminous, glad to be acknowledged. However, it was Reha’s witty comments which first inspired me to write against the popular opinion. Most people are sheep and follow the herd without analyzing things for themselves. Miriam is a prime example of such a douche. Even her insults are borrowed from facebook memes.

    17. Reha

      @Bleh- eh pseudo feminists are a overpowering breed.

    18. Reha

      @Manish,
      Again, a stupid editor and a relentless journalist is all what there is about this story. TOI needed a meaty masala story to fill a otherwise failing print-house and Ms Gupta provided the apt material. Cleavage show (as I had previously pointed out) is a thing of the past- agreed nothing to point arrows at.
      There are also no sides to this story- I think you and your other feminist friends need to relax and sip some cold water.
      I am actually glad that there are a group of men like Vormininous and Bleh who actually recognize the race of Pseudo feminists. Being a woman- I am against the breed as well.

      Whom are you trying to empower? A woman who despite knowing that she lives in a town where predators roam post a certain hour decides to take leisure strolls in the middle of night alone and then blames the nation for non- safety? Can you name me a 1st world nation where such a plan would have otherwise worked for her? Let me tell you- she will be preyed upon regardless what country she decides to inhabit. If someone tells you otherwise- bullshit.

      Lets also talk about the actresses- have you ever been an audience to any interview of the actresses or ‘Chat Shows’ on the Indian television? How many times have you seen the actresses giggling on being called the ‘sex symbol’ or ‘Sexy Siren’? I’ll answer that for you- countless.
      Why is the whole declaration of ‘main movies mein bikini nahin pehnongi’ always followed by a ‘bikini scene’ 4-5 years down the road?
      Well- the answer is that actresses do consider sexual objectification a leading factor why their movies will or will not work on the Friday box office.
      While we are at this topic, lets also resort to the ‘western’ ideology comparison to this situation as well since all pseudo feminists always seem to compare the conditions in the two parts of the world- Surprise! Surprise! The condition applies here as well.

    19. Bleh

      @Reha…I couldn’t have stated things better myself. With all this pseudo feminism floating around, we are diluting the essence of feminism which deals with equality. Instead we are talking about utopian ideals which are not possible to accomplish. As a girl, you have to understand the dangers of not protecting yourself in certain places at certain times of the day (night). It is not a general male mentality which will harm you, but rather your own lack of precautions. And this is true for a number of places both in India and abroad. At 3 am in the night, you will be equally unsafe in the streets of Daryaganj in Delhi, in Istiklal Avenue in Istambul or in Culver City in Los Angeles. Will you be let off if you are a guy? Nope. You may not be sodomized (or you may even be) but you will certainly be mugged/ robbed, drugged or whatever else. Since these are things what criminals do and while it would be awesome to completely decriminalize a country, it is a tough job to do it.
      Again, what this whole TOI drama essentially is about is a stupid editor trying to defend a terrible article ( I mean that section is seriously bad ) and an actress trying to use public sentiments to further her own selfish causes.
      And to all the pseudo feminists: stop trying to compare leering, or even demeaning a girl to rape. While both can be condemned they are not equal things. In this process you are just trivializing the tortures faced by a rape victim. They are not equal. Just as an amputation is not equal to death.
      And as for objectification. Do any of the pseudo feminists know what that really is? I think I have taken on Miriam too much and she has anyway disappeared, but hey whatever! So she might make you believe that all sex is ‘bad’ or all heterosexual intercourse is tantamount to rape. Or is sex only within the confines of marriage good? Is it not simple enough to see that pure objectification does not exist? Even when a guy (or girl) is fantasising about an actress and is ‘jerking off’ to her, he is either thinking of a particularly seductive character she played (think Eva Green in Sin City 2 or the Dreamers) or thinking of how beautiful/ alluring/ sexy that actress is and lusting over her. So s/he is thinking of the whole person, albeit in a sexual manner. S/he is not reducing a person to his/her genitalia. Otherwise one would simply be titillated by looking at medical literature which often carries pictures of unclothed men and women. Consider the reverse. Is it then acceptable to jerk off picturing the intelligence of a lady? Maybe her comments about sex were smart and exciting. Or do you have to be a yogi and be able to control yourself and jerk off by clearing your mind/ not jerk off at all?
      I am glad that people like Reha are able to really observe and say things as they actually stand. These are the very people who can actually make a difference.

    20. Reha

      @Bleh- ur too kind man!

    21. Manish

      @bleh
      “Human needs being satisfied by media”–> needs–>Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, Thats where it comes from..You refuse to connect the dots..or of course i am confused about Maslow..Lets close the case..We have google for that or you can suggest me some psychology book.

      if we are talking about Delhi, you must be aware of the profile of the perpetrators there..Were they long time convicted criminals? The juvenile along with them?Is it possible that they belonged to that “small town” group of people.

      The cases in UP villages recently coming to light.
      The SP supremo saying “ladko se galti ho jaati hai”. Why do you think he can get away with these remarks? Who are the “ladke” he is talking about?

      Indian villages are safe..okayy..maybe if someone is camping at 100$ a night in Rajasthan near Jaisalmer.
      I don’t think a generalization is possible here too and I do believe that there is a majority of men/guys from “small towns” who will have regressive thoughts about the status of women and who will be more susceptible to being influenced by the way media/movies/songs have started portraying women. I am not saying that the net-savvy male will have no such thoughts. What i meant is that there is a considerable number of young people on internet you will find voicing their opinions for the right cause so you can say that they have their hearts in the right place.
      These people exist, they maybe a terrible minority. You can put words into my mouth if you want to prove me naive and only disagree.

      This has already gone on too long.
      I took exception to your trivializing Deepika Padukone’s reaction and your viewpoint that Indian media should go ahead freely representing actor’s ‘assets’ because they are fulfilling a need.

      I stated a reason that there is a difference in the kind of understanding your typical educated youth would have against someone who has not lived in a cosmopolitan environment where women/girl aren’t really aliens..
      They would react differently to the constant bombardment of shiela ki jawani to honey singh’s “main hun shikari something”.
      Will the latter group view these lyrics/visuals as some sort of approval or not is debatable? No studies on this I suppose.

      And well..we can always close the argument by labelling each other as feminists, pseudo-feminists, anti-feminists (if thats a term?)

  13. Adyasha

    TOI has totally lost it. We girls have the rights to dress up as per our own choice. Yes we do have Cleavage…, yes we do have sexy legs…, yes we do have the right to look sexy…
    What’s the problem in that???…
    The stuff that was posted completely shows backward male mentality. People with this type of mentality n mindset support rape n rapists, they should be sued. These people make the life of a victim hell….
    TOI should be sued for such comments.

    1. aditya singh

      The author of that article is not a male… the name of author is PRIYA GUPTA.. and this does not show a male mentality, even a few m
      ahila jagran samiti kind of female moral police are also doing the same thing so to blame only male for this is not a good idea…

  14. Anjali

    I had no doubts that TOI is a newspaper getting crappier by the day. They have made issue out of this? Then they should be posting bhajan mandali’s pics on page-3 and tips on how to dress up with a veil on their last pages in Delhi-Bombay-Gurgaon-Bangalore Times, why are they posting nearly naked pics of Hollywood actresses and models/singers? If anyone is hypocritical, it’s the writer and the newspaper.

  15. vikas

    I did boycott this publication 1 year back

    1. VVJJ

      I use this newspaper to wipe my A*ss when I run out of toilet paper.

    2. Swati

      Same here. Stopped using TOIlet paper for reading news.

  16. K.Sundaram

    Two sentences.
    1. Have cleavage, will show!
    2. Have press, will comment!

  17. aditya singh

    This is a publicity stunt of the author.. author of
    the article is hungry for cheap publicity…

  18. Nabeela Usmani

    Dear Dhruv,
    Its so nice to see a man with such wise thoughts.
    I just copied your article and send it to the editor of TOI with this page link as i was not getting words to explain how wrong she was.
    Thank you, love you. Keep rocking.. (Y)

  19. Aditi

    Very well written! Thank you for being able to clearly describe how and why this is so terrible and shocking. Most of all, very dissapointing journalism by TOI.

  20. Shimona

    Rubbish! Asking for it? Who the hell asks for it? Spam pages which are baseless and have no work online or offline, post such attention seeking posts like “OMG Deepika’s cleavage!”, which the film fraternity has to ignore, but TOI is a reputed national newspaper. People buy newspapers to read news in and around the world to gain information. Not some idiotic articles on cleavage (I repeat attention seeking). I absolutely support Deepika.

  21. Nishant

    Dear Writer

    Fully agree

    I feel proud in small way to share that i asked my newspaper man to stop TimesofIndia and start with Hindustan Times.

    Feel happy.

    1. srikant

      Try ‘The Hindu’ instead (I work there).

    2. salman

      thats good. so…now you can eat the shit too

  22. Muhammed Fayiz

    Yes! Exactly it’s TOI’s point of view. They only publish their waste stuffs only for sex scandals and wardrobe malfunctions. It’s better to use TOI as toilet paper. Worth buying!!

  23. ab

    This is so sad !! Instead of going ahead our country is going backwards. We talk of women empowerment, equal rights for women, the modern India and along comes a newspaper like TOI and belittles us by talking about a celebrities clevage. Its worse to see a women do this to another women. When she probably does the same to show she too is a women of the 21st century. Well done Deepika Padukone for slamming back at them !! Well done to u dhruv arora.

  24. Sanjeev

    I am saddened at the way actresses are exposing their bodies, women are supporting them with cliches like @That’s her body and her wish”, the press is publishing these pictures in large sizes, and men of course enjoying the show.
    Has it led to am emancipation of women? Sadly, NO. Does it “empower” a woman if she is able to show off her body? Does she feel any good about perverts drooling at their pictures? Does she feel any better that parents now have a tough time hiding these nude and vulgar pictures from their kids? Then why does she do it? For Money. Why do films show them? For money. Why do publications print them? For Money. Why do editors and columnists support it? Same reason.
    What have we come to, if all we can do in the name of art is to show nudity? These actresses have little or no acting talent, and all they can do to keep themselves in the news is to bare their bodies.
    And this website, supports them. SHAME !!

    1. Manish

      Dear Sir
      Its a gud thing that u r only ‘saddened’. Does this sadness ever makes you enraged too?? All these women going out of control you see…I know its horrible..
      Why can’t they simply be dutiful daughters, sisters and loving mothers. Why can’t they simply find a good husband and live their lives like pious sati-savitri, patnivrata indian naari is supposed to live…Instead they go around saying displaying body is an art..
      They wear skirtsss..OMG..
      Parents have to hide their pictures…OMG..
      Kids should not know what bodies look like otherwise their little minds will get perverted. Never mind that its the parents responsibility to tell their little hormone fueled devils to respect a women for who she is not for what she wears..Tell them that a woman’s body belongs to her as much as a man’s belongs to him..And you have no justifcation to trespass or comment on it..But ahhh..That’d be too much trouble..
      And in any case, a woman’s body is a roadway to hell…

      You see Mr Sanjeev, Its so bad these women are behaving like this. They are starting to say that “we are equal human beings and we want rights to choose what we want to do and behave like”.

      Don’t they understand that they are little frail beings who need us men to guide their every step..??
      Ohh mannn…when will these women understand..These self-confident, ready to answer back, independent women..They are the root cause of the problem..Whenever women go out of their way, it makes a mess of our age old values..Thats why their was this witch hunt in medieval England I think..These confident, knowledgable, having an opinion of their own young women are modern India’s witches really..
      What do we do?? In England they could burn them on stakes. In ancient Greece a Hypatia could be murdered by a mob…Even in Pakistan, they can teach those blasphemous women a lesson…

      We had the sati system but OMG…these people took it away from us..

      Oh the horrors…Oh the loss of my ancient civilization…All because women are starting to wear such clothes…How will we stop the decline..??
      All concerned men…Please give your suggestions as to how to stem this tide of destruction before it swallows our civilization…!!!!

    2. Sangeeta

      Cheers Manish! Apt reply, most Indian men need to mature in their thinking, but good to hear this coming from one of them, hope lives 🙂

    3. Reha

      Manish, being a women myself, I think we are missing an important item in this ‘woman revolution’. The women are ready to be revolutionized-agreed, however, is the Indian society ready for this mass revolution?
      My question stems from the fact that a majority of our population is still uneducated. India’s demographic composition cannot be compared to countries like USA or UK who are both 1st world nations and who were either never colonized or have been free for over 500 years. Can our society be expected to reform and couture to the modernization in a mere 70 years since independence?
      I do not think so. People like Sanjeev and Babar here are unfortunately not a minority ideology. The issue is that the country wants to confrount the new age revolution without committing to a truly educated society.
      If you think the US and European nations are immune to rapes and women emancipation then you are sadly mistaken my friend. If you realize, the US being the most powerful nation in the world has never had a women president. Equal pay for men and women is still a bill in the parliament here. Men are still regarded as the bread winners on the income tax returns even if the women earns more.
      What are we chiming against then? Its not the Indian men who are a ignorant breed. I think the women too need to realize that it will take another couple of generations of educated men to die till they can actually compete with the American or European women in freedom, only to realize that those women are still fighting the ‘battle for equality’- just a little more quietly.

    4. Ankur

      Manish this is the worst reply i could have ever thought about.
      I never hope that you would ever change, but just wish the people around you are not “contaminated” by you.
      just live your life without judging others.
      Rapists are not people from other planet but they are people like you and people influenced by you who try to be moral police.
      Just once ever get in the shoes of any female and feel the pain she has to bear just because people like you consider her just a commodity to be kept wrapped up in a closet.
      lastly you were talking about being blaspheme, turn the leaflets of vedas (original ones not the corrupted version),in our hindu society women were treated as par with the gods .
      its not they are the witches of this age, but its you who just to keep your masculine superiority try to subject women with such hatred and lowliness.

    5. Manish

      Reha, That does give some perspective. There definitely are young women and girls who will go on and say anything to defend their ‘equal position’ as girls.

      Its correct that rapes, molestation etc is a problem everywhere. The recent Rotterham expose is a case in point.
      What you are saying regarding Indian society not being ready is completely true. I have raised the same point to our friend ‘Bleh’ in his reply about objectification down somewhere. Waiting for his reply.

      We agree that women/girls in India need to take it easy with the assertion of their rights and the way they say it.

      What ToI tried doing is make a headline inspired by the western paparrazi. On one hand we agree on the diference in demographics, but then saying that Indians including actresses like Deepika Padukone should be okay with this Western paparrazi inspired cleavage/tummy-pointing cannot be correct.
      You cannot feed the same content to everybody. If someone says that there’s something wrong with the way content is being presented, one cannot come along and cite examples from the whole wide world.

      That defeats the whole cause of this hue and cry against ToIs behaviour. All we are saying is that don’t push this content down our throats saying “ohh its normal, don’t you know freud and odepius complex”

      People take ideas from these posts and replies, especially when it is so eloquently presented. I usually don’t comment so much but given this discussion, I am just trying to find where is it leading us keeping in mind the ground realities of our country.
      And yeah Mr Babar needs a reply…:o

    6. Reha

      Manish- I’ll clarify a lil here- No, I don’t think Ms Padukone should accept what happened. If the initial article was not immature enough, TOI sealed the deal with the reply posted to Ms Padukone’s twitter post.
      Rather what irritates here is the overwhelm by some of the (wo)men as a response to this article citing everything from ‘Objectification of women’ and ‘salwar-kameez’ to ‘rapes’ (read miriam, girlpower, sanjeev and the other end of the pole- babar).
      Its good to see Youngistan finally acknowledging subjects like women equality but its a pain in the rear to hear them yell ‘blasphemy’ from the roof tops on every trivial matter. The Indian media (both print and otherwise) is a very powerful group. The right to freedom of speech in this country is generous as compared to the western world where the citizens hear filtered news from a media controlled by the government. You hear about rapes and women injustice because the media covers them. Such is not the case with other parts of the world.
      Let’s not give the pseudo feminists any more glamour then they already deserve is all what I am personally trying to convey.

      P.S- Babar is exceptionally quite, I wonder what he is plotting 🙂

    7. Bleh

      Noooo Manish, you are again mistaken. At least what you write is easier to follow and not as convoluted as our friend Ms girlpower. I tried to give her a reply, couldn’t proceed since her English was so atrocious and gave up.
      There is no witch burning going on. I am very against any kind of shaming, be it with respect to intellect, obesity or body size, earning capacity, or choice of clothes. And not just with women but with men and everyone else. Transgenders included.
      Is nudity bad in itself? Of course it is not. The whole nudist philosophy is about nudity in itself being asexual. So parents, children and your friendly neighbor should be able to roam around nude and it shouldn’t cause any problem. But such a philosophy is not practical simply because many people will not ascribe to it. Wearing a skirt, or a bikini or whatever is totally fine. But there is always a place and time. It is foolish to assume that one would not invite stares if one was wearing a bikini in a bus. Theoretically, it still relates to freedom of expression and I have nothing against it. But then again, try teaching theory to your friendly neighborhood criminal. But why would one then object to wearing a bikini to the temple or to a mosque? Is it not hypocritical then?
      You are also bringing in extreme examples. Sati was a societal corruption which existed alongwith many others. To equate any historical social inequity with what is happening now is foolish.

      You are also conveniently saying India is unique and not unique whenever it suits you. Every country is unique, hell everything is unique. One leaf is not exactly the same as another leaf. But generalizations can be and should be made even if only for convenience. As I said before, the line between what should be said and shouldn’t be said is fine. TOI made a stupid article. It had also given a trashy review to one of her erstwhile movies (something like the movie is bad because it is bad because the reviewer did not like it and that Deepika is one terrible actress). Now one can argue that this is defaming the talent of an actress and no one should have a right to do it, at least not on the basis of one movie. And you can sue, and counter sue and there would be a mess. Similarly, in this case I believe the issue is trivial but has been blown up so much that it is beyond a bursting limit. Nothing to do with western media, their practices or anything to do with the west.
      And FYI, why the hell did all the people go crazy when Richard Gere kissed Shilpa Shetty? I will never understand these double standards….

    8. Vorminious

      You are an idiot my friend. If you think you have the right to condemn a woman based on her lifestyle choices, then you dont belong in 21st century. Live and let live, or go back to your retarded medieval home.

    9. Manish

      @Ankur

      I was not supporting Sanjeev..That was meant to be sarcastic..Is it not clear enough??

      And if i supported something like that I’d soon need a psychiatrist for my split personality disorder..
      1.) I am and i guess we all are against what ToI did.
      2.) That doesn’t mean that every girl should come around shouting “its my body, i have the right to roam naked if i want”. No you don’t. It’ll be a nightmare for the policing agencies if everybody starts doing that. Girls holding “Even if i am naked, you have no right to rape me” placards in Delhi protests was silly. Who are you trying to address??
      Smart, intelligent women/girls need to do some serious rethinking over how they want to protest and bring about change. No amount of shouting or calling all men pigs will suffice.

      3.) A girl, like every other human being is as much responsible for her safety as the law and the society.

      4.) The indian male stare/gaze definitely needs a change. Why would travel advises western women travelling to India ask them to dress modestly.

      5.) We have a free media/entertainment industry but I cannot understand that why the sudden explosion of gyrating body parts and crude sexual lyrics shouldn’t be seen as a problem. I think there shud be a co-relation or maybe we shud ask NSSO.

      What do we do..?? What do we do..??
      Is this clash of cultures inevitable..:(

  25. seedhi baat

    Indian people mentality: idolizes porn star and worship her in cinema and media and curses actress who sell her body for living….best example of double standards

  26. Rohit Kumar

    I do not know heavy intellectual words…..but apart of showbiz, there is also one factor; which is feasibility in a society. When I think on these lines, i always come to conclusion that there are no retakes in a real life…..and for that matter life of a Celebrity even in real life is very well guarded including surroundings…… Problem in India is..when we imbibe something from showbiz, we forget “how much of our surrounding is guarded” !!! and in this controversy TOI will behave like this to your surprise because it is a after effect to impress the present government to let them off the hook !!

    1. bleh

      Good man. You don’t need heavy words to make an intelligent point. What you said is perfectly true and should be obvious to a fellow intelligent being.

  27. Whatever

    I think the video was a very sad portrayal of a women’s body. You guys have definitely made every women conscious and saddened about the fact that we still have such narrow minded people. Shame on you.

  28. Deepak Bansal

    There is no point talking to people here…

    If any one has read this last comment… Please Read what Bleh had to say… He is sensible in what he has said.

    Rest are all people who are disgusted with the society they belong to and everything that exists in it!!!

  29. Jay Patel

    TOI writers is now acting like a jerk. They are trying hard to prove the point. They misused the photos with provoking headline to get more traffic from social media. Why can’t they expect their evil intention behind such posts?

  30. Sangeeta

    I feel this entire comment thread has been hijacked by pseudo – intellects who as usual take discussions about a specific topic into different tangents(topic here is TOI reaction to Deepika’s tweet, but it has been taken apart into different directions such as feminism, how a woman should or should not behave in society in general, human society as analysed in various theories, etc, etc) which is the usual way in which meaningful discussions turn into pointless and directionless arguments, and END RESULT – ZERO. Why can’t you people just talk about the issue discussed in the article that we are supposed to comment on? Support the point made or NOT, we don’t need heavy discussions about related and unrelated points to confuse everyone.

    1. bleh

      Why are you shying away from an intelligent debate? Yes or no? Black and white? I thought a simple yes or no could be done by a poll; there ain’t no need for a discussion. Why is the end result zero? According to you? Maybe you didn’t understand much? So using theories is wrong because theories are meaningless in the real world? Newton must be turning in his grave.
      And Deepika’s tweet is not about feminism? Or it doesn’t involve feminism? Really? Then you misunderstood the whole thing.
      And our classroom teacher has asked us to be focused and comment on the article. You can’t talk about anything else. To the point answers please…again, really?
      And pseudo intellects? Being called a pseudo feminist burnt much? Actually no one even directly referred to you…
      But, hey, let’s just stay to the point, shall we? Then the sole question as raised by the newspaper is “Was Deepika saying whatever she was saying just for publicity?”
      Yes or no, and please don’t provide any justification for your answer. Those are the rules 😛
      Jokes apart, I have dissed Manish a lot, but I feel his last post made much sense— the one addressed to Ankur. Let us not be sheep. There was a satire by some (random) channel on Youtube on social experiments (TVF viral something). Recommend some of you to have a look. Fun stuff and totally relevant.

    2. sangeeta

      I do not think Deepika was talking about feminism – but that’s my viewpoint. It was an objection to a crude article on her body part, which you claim she is doing for publicity, – the article was also aiming to drive up site visits and thereby – ads. What kind of clothes a woman should wear, at which time and place – how is it even related to this point? I really do support Manish in whatever he is saying, atleast its more relevant to this discussion. And I really do not know what I said to be called a pseudo-feminist, is supporting a female being a feminist?

    3. Manish

      Hey All..Another day and we are still discussing this.
      Sangeeta I think the discussion has really widened here which is maybe inevitable. We are all on the same side when it comes to ToI vs Deepika.
      Moving on to other points that emerge.
      I am not sure we shud care about the feminist vs pseudo-feminist debate as we are only ganging up on each other that way.

      What I care about are the things that we (as a group of thinking, discussing human beings;Bleh,Rhea,you,me,Vorminous etc.) are viewed as being supportive of and those we are against. (to anybody who has the perseverance to sift through this mess we’ve made).

      Clearly, we diverge with Bleh on a few points.(Her doing it for publicity, Being okay with trashy journalism etc)
      But when you look to try to control it, again i don’t see a viable method of doing it so all we can do is probably get our disapproval known.

      I threw around a theory about ‘profiling’ which is again not finding many takers because it is probably too polarizing. We surely would need data for that. Who’s got the time though.

      But i would like to see the discussions go on.

      For those who are coming here to give one-time verdicts like
      “The people here / discussions here are meaningless” or
      “Yeahh, we taught the noobs/feminists/pseudo-feminists/noob-feminists/noob-pseudo-feminists a lesson” (Vorminious..:P) I can only say one of the choicest two-word-phrases that the west has invented for us…(It cud but it doesn’t start with an Eff)..
      Peace Out..!

      Rest may follow if Babar and Sanjeev (particularly Babar) ever find their voices back.

      And Bleh I haven’t been dissed. This was nothing comapred to what can happen over internet exchanges. I am glad things didn’t reach the “If your-pea-sized-brain-can-understand-this” level..!!

      By the way, If anybody needs perspective on what another majority of people think, do visit the ToI comments on their “Our viewpoint article” under the “most discussed” category.
      What can you say to those guys..?

    4. Reha

      @Manish- BTW I tracked Babar :-). He is currently here playing alone 🙂 http://www.youthkiawaaz.com/2014/09/deepika-padukone-open-letter/

      wanna go say Hi? 😉

    5. Manish

      @Reha, Bleh, Sangeeta

      About the Babar thing…
      yes please…I really want to figure out what he thinks..I have started off..

    6. Bleh

      Now you guys made me too curious about Babar and I have to check him out.
      By the way, just found out that this thread is trending on youthkiawaaz for a pretty long time and the number of posts is way more than many others. Thanks to….? I am so tempted to say us 🙂

      @ Manish, yea not really dissing but it was fun jostling with you. And about your idea of profiling, I am sure there is some merit to that. But it enters very dangerous ground (akin to racial profiling) which I would rather not go into. Maybe over a cup of tea, yes, but definitely not in a public forum.

      @ Reha, I glanced through your BlogSpot. It’s excellent but I don’t want to make this thread go tangentially so I will simply write to you directly there.
      @ Sangeeta, come on…one last comment maybe? An amicable ending perhaps? Even though the limit of this thread tends to 0.

    7. Sangeeta

      Bleh,
      I may not agree with all your points, but appreciate the manner of debate 🙂

    8. bleh

      Well you didn’t answer most of my questions. And you failed to provide a yes or no. But you are forgiven…
      No, supporting a female is not being a feminist. But supporting a female just because she is a female is being gender biased, and hence a pseudo feminist. Analyze yourself and your comments. Your bias is apparent and if you deny it, that would be being untrue to oneself. And who are the pseudo intellectuals (hint look up the meaning)?

      “which you claim she is doing for publicity”
      I don’t claim so, TOI does and I concur. The timing and manner is too coincidental to make it otherwise. Also I seldom have a problem with trashy journalism, since it is easy to ignore. Or should all newspaper articles be about inter-country politics?

      “the article was also aiming to drive up site visits and thereby – ads”
      That is your assumption and it is true for any article, ranging from front page news to age 3 glamour. Doesn’t change anything.
      Anyway, have a Mars bar and relax. You don’t need to be labelled a feminist at all.

    9. sangeeta

      Haha! My comments in no way supported Deepika just because she is a female – I would not support anyone, male or female, just for their gender (who is so naïve?). Anyway, end of discussion for me.

    10. bleh

      Till next time then, Sangeeta. I don’t know whether you comment on other issues as well in this forum, but it was interesting to hear your views.
      @Reha, you seriously write well. Stupid site does not allow linked threads or I would have really liked to see what else you have written elsewhere.
      @ Miriam, don’t think you will be back. Please just stay that way. Disappear and the world might be a better place.

    11. Reha

      @Bleh- I haven’t brushed friction elsewhere on this site yet.. though now since this got so exciting- I am planning to explore the territory. I blog though! correction- I blogged though! I haven’t written in some time.. this might be the topic which might drag me back to http://moderndaycleopatra.com/. Let me know what you think :-). Its senseless material anyways.

    12. Reha

      Sangeeta, quite frankly, what was the result of your ‘informative comment’? Let me quote you in your words, “Quite Frankly- ZERO”.
      The incident between TOI/Ms Padukone is in-fact a part of a much larger discussion pertaining to the presence of pseudo feminists and the ‘equality and rights of women’. The discussion group’s migration to those parallel topics was thus inevitable.
      Therefore, there was no supposed ‘tangent’ being discussed here, rather, the cause of all this commotion in your mailbox was due to an exchange of ideologies on the said topics.
      None of us here discussed how a woman should behave in the society, rather, we discussed how the women should be ready to bear the burden of the consequences of their behaviors/actions. We discussed how a truly informed and forward women could avoid a lot of actions and how the societies in the rest of the world are no different from what is being observed in India.
      I think you should try reading us in a greater detail :-).

    13. Sangeeta

      Great, so if I put this in perspective, your words – “we discussed how the women should be ready to bear the burden of the consequences of their behaviors/actions. We discussed how a truly informed and forward women could avoid a lot of actions and how the societies in the rest of the world are no different from what is being observed in India” – you are basically saying that Deepika should be ready to accept TOI’s behaviour because she has posed in a similar manner earlier. Or is this discussion, not related at all to the TOI-Deepika issue??:-) correct me if I’m wrong here.
      My two bits – societies around the world need to change their mindset if that’s the case – a wardrobe malfunction such as some cleavage showing should not be pointed out in a manner akin to school boys by a national publication (or any websites under its control). A national publication influences society, and hence it should be more responsible in its actions. And if its not – a female protesting it does not make her a pseudo-feminist or even a feminist – I think its a question of basic human decency that’s all.

  31. Yohaan D’Monte

    It is really shocking to see women respond positively to comments made by people like Bleh and argue with and insult people like Miriam who actually had valid things to say and addressed issues that majority of the world’s population refuse to. Since we are talking about sexual objectification here lets make it clear what that is.
    Sexually objectifying a woman is when anyone looks or thinks of her as nothing more than an “Object of/for sex”. This is a little bit different from jerking off, etc if you are the kind of person that looks at men and women as human beings.

    It is true that women need to be cautious and take measures to protect themselves all over the world but don’t you realize that THAT is the problem. It is sad that they NEED to do that. The problem is the mentality where most men believe that a woman is meant to satisfy or sexually please a man or that men have a right over women sexually. It is sad that our society thinks that women need to be careful but no change in mentality is required.

    Also, I read a lot of stupid comments being said and they really made me laugh :p
    1 – @bleh – Lesbianism is when a woman is attracted to a woman. It IS homosexuality. It IS genetic. It is not different from being Gay except that Lesbianism applies to women and being/the term Gay applies to men usually but today it is the term given to anyone attracted to the same sex. They are both Homosexual terms. I’m surprised you did not know this when clearly you think very highly of your intellectual potential.
    2 – Smoking doesn’t come from genes! What is the matter with you lol!
    3 – @bleh and everyone who wanted proof that porn is detrimental to society –
    http://theresurgence.com/2011/11/19/7-negative-effects-of-porn

    This is one that debates both sides since it is not ONLY detrimental – http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/homo-consumericus/201001/pornography-beneficial-or-detrimental

    http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/study-proves-pornography-is-harmful

    4 – Freedom of speech and all that is necessary. The problem with today’s media ALL OVER THE WORLD is that they seem to focus on MAINLY sexual imagery – This causes “un-educated” people (I don’t mean people who haven’t gone to school since schools seldom teach us about societal issues)” to believe that it is alright to sexually objectify women. It causes women to think that there is nothing other than their bodies that a man wants from them. The media is responsible for moulding our mind sets since that is our gateway into the world. Also, the media shows us what is popular and/or in demand at any given point – so it is one big circle. And we need to change it.
    We need to change our mindsets – Don’t just say there is a problem, fix it. I feel like there are too few of us who want to fix it.
    5 – @ Reha “Can our society be expected to reform and couture to the modernization in a mere 70 years since independence?
    I do not think so. ” – No, not overnight. But that’s no excuse to not start. We’re bringing up children into this mind set. All of this needs to start at home. We need to set the course for a country when it is young.
    6 – @bleh “Which brings us to the main point—should the media pay attention to an actresses assets? The answer is an unequivocal yes. The media reflects a particular need of the society. And indeed there is nothing wrong with some obsessions and fantasies, sexualized or not. ” – No it is not wrong to fantasise. It becomes wrong when you cannot see a woman as a fellow human being. And as for should the media pay attention to an actresses assets (appalling that you use the word asset which clearly implies materialistic property) – The answer actually is an unequivocal HELL NO! You have a mind set that needs to be changed.

    1. Reha

      Yohaan,
      darling- people like Miriam are Pseudo Feminists according to me. I am 26 and educated, furthermore- I’m a woman. Believe me, I’ve had my shares of eve teasing and lewd comments and I still stand my ground on everything I said.
      I also don’t think you were patient enough to read my comments. I never said you shouldn’t start reforming!! I never said we are not training our kids! I rather said (Quote) “It will take another 2 generations of educated men to die for our country to be actually at par with countries like US and UK” where the condition of women are a tad bit better than what it is in India. And I am hoping men and women today are setting the course for a brighter India. My question is- when did any of us deny the fact?? Please read the comments carefully the next time you decide to hurdle allegations across the fence and if something isn’t clear- there is no harm in clarifying.
      I am sorry but I don’t follow the sheep walk. The debate here is on two topics: One being the incident between TOI and Deepika where clearly, we all agree. TOI was immature and handled the whole situation irresponsibly. The second and larger debate here is about the overall condition of women in this country and how they have ‘equal right’ everywhere else but for some weird reason India is extremely under-developed in that aspect.
      No one is arguing the first topic here expect for a few idiots like Babar. In the argument for the second topic, I don’t think I will bulge on my initial thoughts that some of us here are pseudo feminists.
      Let me start with some facts. Miriam commented about how incestation between a father/daughter and mother/son is evil; seriously! That’s child sexual abuse!- not incest. Incest is between two consenting adults who are family members or close relatives.
      Secondly, pornography is not used for pleasure by men alone. Women watch pornography too for recreation purposes (Need I say more? )
      Lastly, Fantasizing or Objectification: Two things here: 1) Like I said before, actresses actually are in a race today to be sex symbols. What are ‘item songs’? Are they appropriate for kids? Or are you saying that the actresses are unaware that they are being sexually objectified when songs like “Aayi Chickni Chameli Chup ke Akeli’ demand short cholies and skimpy clothing? Please!! Lets stop being hypocrites.
      These same women like miriam and girlpower sit in theaters and call fawad khan ‘yummmm’ or ogle at ‘Desi Boys’. Or is that not sexual objectification.

      I can’t believe that just because some women have the guts to accept the wrong from the right, we need to be called oppressors! I believe that when you are offering bikinis and sexual R rated scenes in the movies, then you are doing so with knowing the fact that the audience of the movies consist of not only the so called ‘bramacharies’ and ‘brahmacharinis’ who are not aroused by the actor or actresses’s sexual picturization but also consist of rikshawalas and a population consisting of over 40% illiterates.
      Change should not be dramatic is all I am saying, we definitely need to change and women need more rights, but we need to introduce it gradually. Expecting a country to be a 1st world nation when the economy and population demographics are not at par is foolishness and sorry! but I am not a sheep to blindly follow the masses here.

    2. Miriam

      Hi Reha
      So from your comment I suppose I can safely assume that
      1. You assume a person’s characteristic and what they may or may not do.
      2. You did not realize that I was addressing the points made by your ardent supporter ‘bleh’ and have, without any actual or implied basis, assumed that I think its fine for men to be sexually objectified and that I think its perfectly fine for women to flaunt their bodies as sexual items.

      ‘These same women like miriam and girlpower sit in theaters and call fawad khan ‘yummmm’ or ogle at ‘Desi Boys’. Or is that not sexual objectification.’ – I absolutely take offence to you grouping me in with women who do this without having any grounds to make such statements.
      To start with, NO I don’t condone the sexual display of a man or woman on any media outlet. I don’t fawn over this Fawad fellow or any other guy. In fact, I find the importance placed on appearance quite superficial and don’t think people should be particularly appreciated for something that genetics have played a bigger role in rather than their intelligence and personality.
      To point out the parts where I have actually included both genders of the human species (I’ve re-typed them out in uppercase, assuming you probably missed them):
      ‘The apparent need to fantasise or obsess about sexually objectified PEOPLE has been created by the media.’
      ‘The film industry shouldn’t be allowed to make a profit on an ACTOR’s 6 pack or an ACTRESS’ hot legs and toned cleavage/tummy/ass/thighs’ (making a clear distinction between both sexes here)
      ‘It comes from your ideology that it is fine to take just the ‘assets’ of A PERSON and leave the bit that makes them human outside the door’
      ‘Those countries are not exempt from their citizens being enraged about the sexual objectification of MALES and FEMALES in their media either’
      ‘Unless you’re the kind of person who is quite incapable of looking at a FEMALE or MALE as something more than a face or a ‘hot body’.’

      I think it is terrible that women use feminism as a slogan for dressing quite crassly and exhibiting little to no sense of self-respect. I do not blame a man for staring at a woman’s chest if she has dressed up in a way that is degrading and screams for sexual attention. However, your problem with the women who say that ‘men stare at females whether they’re dressed in a ‘salwar-khameez’ or a bikini’, is quite misplaced. Or you’ve misunderstood them – but I’ll give enough intellectual credit to assume that you didn’t.
      Yes, we are accountable for the way we carry ourselves in public and, like I said, if a woman is dressed like a slut, I think it’d be quite unfair to men if anyone berated them for assuming that she just may be one. After all, we don’t call a carrot a potato.
      Now about actresses willing to parade themselves as item girls or as ‘bleh’ had put it:
      ‘Even when a guy (or girl) is fantasising about an actress and is ‘jerking off’ to her, he is either thinking of a particularly seductive character she played (think Eva Green in Sin City 2 or the Dreamers) or thinking of how beautiful/ alluring/ sexy that actress is and lusting over her. So s/he is thinking of the whole person, albeit in a sexual manner.’
      Have you seen Eva Green in her Sin City 2 role? I’m not sure how ‘bleh’ is thinking of her as a complete human being with a personality (with likes, dislikes, interests, family, friends etc) when he’s made no allusion to such an idea. I didn’t think that the term ‘hot body’ referred to just breasts/ass or a 6 pack or whatever women consider as a ‘hot’ (or in your words ‘yummm’) guy. I meant the whole body.
      I have not yet seen a role (Bollywood/Hollywood/whatever) in which I’ve thought it was absolutely necessary for an actress to be naked. In the case of Bollywood, there is definitely no need for any actress to stoop down to the level of an item girl/sexy siren/blushing shy commodity for a role worth playing. And like your ardent supporter ‘bleh’ said (and I am going to paraphrase here) he thinks it is perfectly fine for the media to attend to the need of the society it caters to and that need is to sexually objectify women; for the media to focus on a woman’s assets (I think he said ‘its an unequivocal YES’) and here I shall quote him: ‘Deepika has a cleavage and IMO the media ought to capture it in film if given a chance’.
      Yes, men will continue to sexually objectify women the more they continue to degrade themselves as being nothing more than objects of visual pleasure by being item girls or by gracing the covers of magazines like GQ, Playboy, Maxim etc. In fact, I dislike the way actresses have been quite instrumental in screwing over an entire generation of young girls by turning them into beings who care mostly about their appearance and others’ as well.
      I don’t agree with apparent feminists like Beyonce, who wears skimpy clothing and claim that is ‘female empowerment’. I don’t see how by wearing clothing that fails at its primary function of protecting and covering the body would be instrumental to achieve ‘equality’. Feminists shouldn’t be fighting for their body – we sure know just how much men appreciate them already. We need to fight for the right to be seen as intellectual beings with emotions and relationships. As human beings basically.
      And if I hadn’t mentioned all this, it was because I was addressing ‘bleh’ and the nonsensical points he had made.

      And now onto incest. I shall start this part off by giving you the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of the term.
      in·cest : sexual intercourse between persons so closely related that they are forbidden by law to marry;
      And I had also said the following in response to ‘bleh’:
      ‘Or a brother who thinks of his sister as a practice tool during and for his time of sexual exploration.’
      And for you to put sexual relations between a father/daughter and a mother/son under the wide tent of ‘child abuse’ is actually quite ignorant of the definition of incest.
      According the Encyclopedia Brittannica Concise, ‘child abuse’ includes any and all of the following:
      Crime of inflicting physical or emotional injury on a child. The term can denote the use of inordinate physical violence or verbal abuse; the failure to furnish proper shelter, nourishment, medical treatment, or emotional support; incest, rape, or other instances of sexual molestation; and the making of child pornography.
      I’m going to assume that you suffer from some form of selective reading because you had either missed my point about sexual relations between a brother and sister or you just chose to ignore it – probably because you really thought that any kind of sexual relations between a parent and a child is not considered incest.
      If ‘bleh’ had only meant incestuous relations between two consenting adults, he should’ve stated as such. I admit that I did not – and still do not- give any intellectual credit to a person who could even place homosexuality and incest under the same moral question, who actually thinks that lesbianism is not homosexuality and is actually more of a choice/social factor and who would even go on to suggest that an offspring of incestuous relations and the offspring of, say, a parent with a genetic DISPOSITION to alcoholism are actually the same thing.

      Next topic: Pornography. I didn’t see the need to address pornography made for women
      as I was talking to, who I assumed, was a man and the article was about a woman. Yes, there is pornography made and directed at women. I do not encourage either as I think that the concept of two people having sex in front of a camera, directed by another person, for the purpose of other people to enjoy or experience sexual stimulation is detrimental. There are plenty of cases where people get addicted to pornography, where porn provides a platform for surreal expectations in relation to sex and creates a mindset that it is a woman’s role to satisfy men. And to deny these aspects, even if you think it is applies to less than 2% of the population of the world, is being ignorant as there are many TED talks and public presentations that address these issues. Feel free to google them if you want.
      And all that aside, it is sad that we live in a (global) society where people can make a considerable amount of money (in most places) by selling their bodies. To have sex is not a talent – before anybody considers that to be the same as somebody making money from artistic ventures, or singing or even acting. To look pretty or hot is not a talent. And the fact that it is possible for women and men to make money by reducing themselves to objects that provide sexual release/satisfaction/gratification to absolute strangers says a lot about the mindset of, clearly, men and women in the world.

      And lastly, to quote you ‘It will take another 2 generations of educated men to die for our country to be actually at par with countries like US and UK” where the condition of women are a tad bit better than what it is in India.’. I am sorry but I cannot applaud you for your acceptance of what you seem to think is something that cannot be improved or heavily changed till we someday get to the 3rd generation of educated men (and women) and even when that happens, we could only hope to finally get to where the US and the UK are today in terms of gender equality and all that it entails. Call people who want to bring about a ‘dramatic’ change hypocrites, or dreamers, idiots or even uneducated (or whatever other choice words you may have). But I sure as hell don’t dream of waiting for a better world that may or may not come about to be for my child’s grandchildren. And even if I don’t see the changes that need to come about in my lifetime, I would still try and fight for a dramatic change to come about.

    3. bleh

      @ miriam Glad to have you back. It was your inflammatory reply which got me going in this post.
      First, a quick clarification. With the whole incest thing, my main argument was that sexual relations between consenting adults has moral ambiguity. With children, the case is simply that of consent. As is with zoophilia. Since animals cannot give informed consent, you don’t do stuff with them. But as you said, and I agree, incest means sexual relations between any close family members which of course includes children. And that is unequivocally wrong.
      The character of Eva Green portrayed a femme fatale, and oft used cinematic prop especially in film noir. The nudity there evoked sensuality. A comparison with Gasper Noe’s Irreversible had Monica Belucci in a traumatic rape scene. The nudity there evoked no sensuality. A person who is just objectifying the nudity, would be able to be stimulated by both. And I argue that this kind of person is rare. Most will only be aroused by Eva Green’s portrayal.
      I do not think I have ever mentioned anywhere that a woman’s role is to be a lustful object for men. Rather I argue for sexual freedom for both men and women. But any freedom comes with risks and responsibilities. For example, your freedom of speech allows you to criticize someone but that may obviously have repercussions. Again, a sexually free woman (or Deepika or any actress, whatever) should have the freedom to act but need also be aware of what her actions may entail.
      I think your reply was passionate and though I am still a but prissed about your attitude before, I have tried to be honest and not argumentative in my own reply.

  32. Yohaan D’Monte

    It is really shocking to see women respond positively to comments made by people like Bleh and argue with and insult people like Miriam who actually had valid things to say and addressed issues that majority of the world’s population refuse to. Since we are talking about sexual objectification here lets make it clear what that is.
    Sexually objectifying a woman is when anyone looks or thinks of her as nothing more than an “Object of/for sex”. This is a little bit different from jerking off, etc if you are the kind of person that looks at men and women as human beings.

    It is true that women need to be cautious and take measures to protect themselves all over the world but don’t you realize that THAT is the problem. It is sad that they NEED to do that. The problem is the mentality where most men believe that a woman is meant to satisfy or sexually please a man or that men have a right over women sexually. It is sad that our society thinks that women need to be careful but no change in mentality is required.

    Also, I read a lot of stupid comments being said and they really made me laugh :p
    1 – @bleh – Lesbianism is when a woman is attracted to a woman. It IS homosexuality. It IS genetic. It is not different from being Gay except that Lesbianism applies to women and being/the term Gay applies to men usually but today it is the term given to anyone attracted to the same sex. They are both Homosexual terms. I’m surprised you did not know this when clearly you think very highly of your intellectual potential.
    2 – Smoking doesn’t come from genes! What is the matter with you lol!
    3 – @bleh and everyone who wanted proof that porn is detrimental to society –
    http://theresurgence.com/2011/11/19/7-negative-effects-of-porn

    This is one that debates both sides since it is not ONLY detrimental – http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/homo-consumericus/201001/pornography-beneficial-or-detrimental

    http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/study-proves-pornography-is-harmful

    4 – Freedom of speech and all that is necessary. The problem with today’s media ALL OVER THE WORLD is that they seem to focus on MAINLY sexual imagery – This causes “un-educated” people (I don’t mean people who haven’t gone to school since schools seldom teach us about societal issues)” to believe that it is alright to sexually objectify women. It causes women to think that there is nothing other than their bodies that a man wants from them. The media is responsible for moulding our mind sets since that is our gateway into the world. Also, the media shows us what is popular and/or in demand at any given point – so it is one big circle. And we need to change it.
    We need to change our mindsets – Don’t just say there is a problem, fix it. I feel like there are too few of us who want to fix it.
    5 – @ Reha “Can our society be expected to reform and couture to the modernization in a mere 70 years since independence?
    I do not think so. ” – No, not overnight. But that’s no excuse to not start. We’re bringing up children into this mind set. All of this needs to start at home. We need to set the course for a country when it is young.
    6 – @bleh “Which brings us to the main point—should the media pay attention to an actresses assets? The answer is an unequivocal yes. The media reflects a particular need of the society. And indeed there is nothing wrong with some obsessions and fantasies, sexualized or not. ” – No it is not wrong to fantasise. It becomes wrong when you cannot see a woman as a fellow human being. And as for should the media pay attention to an actresses assets (appalling that you use the word asset which clearly implies materialistic property) – The answer actually is an unequivocal HELL NO! You have a mind set that needs to be changed.
    That is the problem not only in India but everywhere.

    1. Bleh

      Just when I thought this issue was settled, we have more. Which is a good thing I guess. @ Yohan, it is simply too easy to refute you. Lets just do it point by point then. First, your specific comments:
      1. You said “Lesbianism is when a woman is attracted to a woman. It IS homosexuality. It IS genetic.”
      Show me anywhere that lesbianism is genetic and I will agree. I will simply give you a couple of peer reviewed journal articles (read as the pinnacle of science) showing it is not.
      Sheldon, Jane P., et al. “Beliefs about the etiology of homosexuality and about the ramifications of discovering its possible genetic origin.” 2007
      Jayaratne, Toby Epstein, et al. “White Americans’ genetic lay theories of race differences and sexual orientation: Their relationship with prejudice toward Blacks, and gay men and lesbians.” 2006
      I am surprised you did not know this. You really think I am that stupid to put it as a point without thinking. Really?

      2. You said “Smoking doesn’t come from genes!”
      There is a gene related to susceptibility to smoking, similar to the alcoholism gene discovered. Just one reference for you. Seriously, you are stuck at elementary grade biology. There is a world out there dude. And you are simply lost.

      van Rooij, Iris ALM, et al. “Smoking, genetic polymorphisms in biotransformation enzymes, and nonsyndromic oral clefting: a gene-environment interaction.” 2001

      3. You said “porn is detrimental to society”
      Excellent. Do a google search and you will find plenty of people/ websites who said that. And you will have plenty of people who say abortion is detrimental to society. And all you did was cite some place called resurgence? Really? Read this instead, again an actual journal article and not some random web thing.
      Sunstein, Cass R. “Pornography and the First Amendment.” Duke Law Journal (1986): 589-627.

      And FYI, there is a whole host of people who are called sex positive feminists. The majority really, and this is their stance. That sex is a wonderful thing and that it should be rights of women and men to engage in coitus either in film or in their homes. Sexual freedom is not a separate concept. Again, blast off mate….

      4. You said ” media ALL OVER THE WORLD is that they seem to focus on MAINLY sexual imagery”
      Wrong. No statistics say that. Again, what you call sexual may not be sexual to me. Read up on cognitive tiredness and how a burger girl showing lots of cleavage has no sexual connotation to an American guy. Or that people do not think of sex at beaches with pretty girls wearing bikinis. Get out there and use your brain.

      5. You said “We need to set the course for a country when it is young.”

      India is not a young country and we do not need dictatorial mindsets causing change. You are no judge to decide what is right and what isn’t for a hundred people let alone a billion. Hence, the importance of personal freedoms, especially of speech and the media.

      6. “It becomes wrong when you cannot see a woman as a fellow human being a woman as a fellow human being.”
      I have made this point before. When one fantasises, one does not simply imagine a pair of breasts floating. Rather it is the real person, albeit sexualized. Now one may be more aroused by imagining Deepika, or any damn actress, unclothed and a touch of cleavage may help that. But the contours of the female form allow males to fanatsize the same thing about a fully clothed actress.

      It is unfortunate that you do not see things deeply or even clearly. It is your mindset which needs to be changed. Sadly. And try not to post multiple copies of the same stuff. Doesn’t make anything clearer.

    2. Sangeeta

      @Bleh:
      Glanced through your replies, came across this: Your quote:
      ” 2. You said “Smoking doesn’t come from genes!”
      There is a gene related to susceptibility to smoking, similar to the alcoholism gene discovered. Just one reference for you. Seriously, you are stuck at elementary grade biology. There is a world out there dude. And you are simply lost.

      van Rooij, Iris ALM, et al. “Smoking, genetic polymorphisms in biotransformation enzymes, and nonsyndromic oral clefting: a gene-environment interaction.” 2001″

      Bleh,
      I checked that link, since I know a little about oral clefting and this is what is says:

      “Mothers who smoked and carried the GSTT1-null genotype, however, had an increased risk for having a child with oral clefting compared with nonsmokers with the wild type genotype.”

      FYI, oral clefting is a physical deformity that occurs in the development of a foetus, in the lips/palate – otherwise called cleft lip/palate. The article says that maternal smoking during pregnancy may cause oral clefting in the baby.
      My question to you:
      HOW DOES THIS MEAN THAT SMOKING IS GENETIC?
      Sorry, I initially respected your opinion, but now I seriously doubt all your claims based on all your “references”. And this is what I mean by “pseudo-intellectual”.

  33. Reha

    Bwahaahaahaa…. Wow! You seriously think changing ur email handler from girl power and then bitching in d same ‘sentence formation’ is going to make it hard for me to figure out who u r?? Woman… I’ll excuse u…. Calling me an arse, Aunty, pompous … Etc etc just shows ur frustrations!!! High school can be tough! And social media is d perfect solution … Go on.. Rattle a little more..I am actually enjoying ur ill burst of farts here and there.
    And why not! You have nothing substantial to debate about.. So curse words are a perfect defense for a 16 yr old !!
    Poor baby

    1. Ananya

      Ouch, ouch,ouch! Looks like the “high school” is a staple barb for ya. 😛 What’s the story, got bullied there and have bad memories as a result? Sound that way, your high-strung, ultra-defensive responses do.
      Btw, why did you start typing “you” as “u”? Tlkng lyk dat proves my pnt dat u r 1 juvenile idiot. And honey, you know who sounds “frustrated” here, don’t ya? 😉

    2. Piyush

      @Rhea- Apt reply

      @Ananya- I could bet you are the same girl as girlpower like Rhea said. And the language you are using- you are just ruining this debate. Please take your foul language elsewhere.
      Feeling horrible to see that the admin allows such people to make posts who use such foul language as Ananya

    3. Ananya

      Piyush: I’m sorry, but who talked to you? And before you say anything to me, take a look at the kind of language your “friend” has been using to talk down to her opponents in this debate. Talk to her about that, will you?

    4. Reha

      Ananya- As I see in this whole post- you have not posted any worthwhile comment except swear words and lewd comments for people. What are you here for? Do you have anything to say about the incident? Or are you the police appointed by ‘the opponents’ here? I don’t see anyone asking for your help. Furthermore, this is not a fight- we were all having a valid discussion and expressing our viewpoints.
      Lastly- NO ONE HAS USED SWEAR WORDS IN THIS WHOLE AGENDA EXCEPT YOU! yes- YOU.
      so please, Since no one was neither talking to you when you decided to bulge in and start reeling allegations around, you shouldn’t mind if other’s jump into your discussion.

    5. Piyush

      Thankyou Reha! Exactly my sentiments!! Ananya- who the hell was talking to you when you decided to come around and start using this profane language?
      Next thing you know- if I use some words similar to the ones you are using- you will go around screaming that I virtually tried to rape you!
      Let me address your discussion issue- my ‘friend’ like you put it (though I am not) has not used language like your’s in any of the replies she had. As a matter of fact- people like Babar and Bleh who are actually extremists in their analogy here have also refrained from using similar language.
      But look at you! No knowledgeable content at all!! I am not seeing any of your posts which actually deals with the issue. Now that I spent some time here I see that you have explicitly only posted on Rhea’s comments. Is that too much of a coincidence?

      I hated it when Rhea had initially addressed you as a schoolgirl and stereotyped you but I have to say- please take your schoolgirl tactics elsewhere. This is not the platform.

    6. Ananya

      I’m in favour of Deepika and am of the opinion that the TOI virtually resorted to promoting “rape culture” when they implied that Deepika was “asking for it”. That pretty much sums up my opinion on this whole brouhaha.
      Piyush: She might not have used so-called “swear words” here, but she’s got the tendency of being unduly condescending towards people who’ve disagreed with her here. If you didn’t notice it or rather, chose not to notice, that’s not my problem.

    7. Ananya

      And yep, calling somebody a “silly, stupid school girl” along with other snide remarks (like the ones she directed at girlpower) is as bad as swearing in my opinion. And nope, I’m not girlpower, believe it or not. I was a silent reader of this discussion when Reha’s “chip-on-the-shoulder-” attitude prompted me to comment. I can deal with a lot of things, but not self-righteous assholes, both in real and virtual.

    8. Sangeeta

      I do agree with Ananya. Reha has been very condescending in her comments, and unnecessarily so. Quick to jump to conclusions about a person based on an opinion he/she has given – not very mature. And all her comebacks are based on some inconsequential phrases used in statements, missing the bigger point that is being made.

    9. Piyush

      So you think Ananya’s point came across? Can you explain me her point? Atleast we can all read the thoughts of others (including you). I don’t see any material in her posts- just accusations.

    10. Sangeeta

      @Piyush,
      Well, I assume Ananya is supporting Girlpower in her views because that’s what her first post implied. I just went through the posts again, and I would have to say it is Reha who started the rude language – ” Woman! I’m on your side against these idiots but please!! Better choice of words! Stop derogating yourself and the rest of us by calling us “materials of entertainment”! ”
      “Materials of entertainment” was never mentioned in Girlpower’s post.
      But I think I have said enough about people making sweeping assumptions and putting words in other’s mouths. That’s the way this debate has extended so much.

    11. Reha

      Sangeeta,
      What exactly are you doing now? Your last few posts have been directly about quoting me and how I make it a point to try and ‘intimidate people’ on their thought chain. So what does this account to?

      Next, let’s talk about ‘ smoking and genes’. Since you quoted a literary article followed by a question to Bleh” are smoking and genes related?” Here is my answer: YES. And below are my synopsis in support of my answer. This is a direct post from the UNC research page. I hope this is enough to tackle your ” pseudo intellect” :). Please refrain from posting material irrelevant to the topic . The issue was not ” is smoking genetic” and not ” effects of smoking During pregnancy and on unborn children”.

      UNC-Chapel Hill genetics faculty members and UNC Lineberger members Helena Furberg, PhD and Patrick Sullivan, MD led the largest genetic study of smoking, called the Tobacco and Genetics Consortium (TAG), collaborating with scientists from 16 large genetic studies world-wide. They compared the DNA marker profiles between smokers and non-smokers to examine whether genetic variants affect whether people start to smoke. They also compared the DNA among smokers to see if genetic variants affected the number of cigarettes smoked per day, the age when people began to smoke and whether smokers were able to quit.

      “In a paper published today in the journal Nature Genetics, the team reported that three genetic regions were associated with the number of cigarettes smoked per day, one region was associated with smoking initiation and one variant was associated with smoking cessation. The variants on chromosome 15 that were associated with heavy smoking lie within a region that contains nicotinic receptor genes, which other scientists have previously associated with nicotine dependence and lung cancer.

      I’ll refute to another post regarding my reply on the accusations hurdled on me 🙂

    12. sangeeta

      Reha,

      I wish you would slow down and read through posts carefully. You say “The issue was not ” is smoking genetic” and not ” effects of smoking During pregnancy and on unborn children”. Well, it was not I who brought up the effects of smoking during pregnancy, THAT WAS BLEH who posted a link to that article. And my response to that link, was how does that ARTICLE prove smoking is genetic.
      Your accusation – “”Your last few posts have been directly about quoting me and how I make it a point to try and ‘intimidate people’ on their thought chain.”” . At no point have I used the words “intimidate people”. I said “condescending” not “intimidate”.
      Slow down, read, interpret and then respond.

    13. sangeeta

      Reha,
      And by the way, my last post was a response to Piyush who questioned me. related to the entire Ananya – Girlpower – Reha argument that was going on. I have no interest in randomly quoting people.

    14. Reha

      Darling you quoted me, again, I would have appreciated a response from you initially when he discussion happened. The dialog dint seem to bother you for two days or rather bother you enough to amount a reply, however, suddenly an opinion has developed after jumping the bandwagon :). Anyways, it really doesn’t bother me. However, your points about smoking are invalid . If bleh posted an incorrect link, you now have the correct synopsis.
      I do not have to defend him, unlike others, he can sail his own ship 😉

    15. sangeeta

      Reha, I don’t know which part of the world you live in, I only received Piyush’s question today. And the only reason I went back to Girlpower’s post was because it all started there, didn’t it? Tend to lose track of the argument when it flies in all directions, so needed to get back to the root. I have not suddenly become opinionated, I have been voicing my opinion from the beginning of this comment section, have a look. I have not made any points about smoking, it was Bleh who attempted to make a point , posting a wrong link, possibly assuming nobody will go through it. If I have refuted his so-called references, then you cannot say my point is invalid. It was his that was invalid. The fact that he then posted another link does not change the fact, that we have now have to double check all the links he posts to back his facts. Any way who has the time — I just happened to follow it because of the oral clefting reference. I don’t go with blind support, and that’s what you are doing now.

    16. Reha

      A) my comment about you being opinionated was regarding you being opinionated about my replies to girlpower, which is, in every sense, very recent.

      B) I have never demanded support. If someone felt my debate was valid and decided to voice their opinion, then believe me, it’s THEIR opinion, I have not ( as clearly visible) rallied for any support, therefore your statement is an incorrect representation of this group’s situation. We agree and disagree with people because we are informed individuals . I believe what Bleh posts is a realistic picture of the society, not a spin up, candy coated delusion marketed for a ‘New Age India’.
      Furthermore, you chose sides with Ananya, how is that different from the ‘support system’ ( which is clearly non-existent)you currently accuse me of?
      C) the context of what Bleh posted was ” smoking is genetic” which has some degree of truth associated to it. In this darn age of google and bing, how hard was it to google this question? I agree that the link posted ( so pointed by you) might not be an adequate argument enough to convince you otherwise ,but the statement made was correct .

    17. sangeeta

      Reha,
      Err – if someone posts a link with such confidence, why shouldn’t I follow it , instead of resorting to google and bing? Now this is just supporting for the sake of it. I don’t know how “condescending” implies “intimidating”, they don’t even mean the same thing. I think I can analyse which comments are supporting a point, and which are not, and so I assumed Ananya was supporting Girl Power, no rocket science there. And about supporting Ananya, I have a problem with “BLIND support”, not “SUPPORT”. The way you support Bleh putting a wrong link to refute his point, and then argue with me for pointing out its a wrong link, that’s what is blind support.

    18. Reha

      Sorry Ma’am but this whole ” Ananya supports girl power and I support Ananya and that’s support but what you have is blind support ” debate is extremely opinionated and thus invalid and ‘implying'( using your terminology) . How you arrived at that conclusion is still grey but hey! It’s an opinion after all and we are big preservers of opinion which matter to our opinions, are we not!
      I am not blindly supporting Bleh, I am simply providing the scientific reference material we are all openly demanding when that statement was made . Therefore, I saw ab ask, and since I am entitled to have a personal opinion , did my set of research during which I found scientific articles supporting his statement, hence the post.
      If there are principles , I think they should be universally applicable , not a discretion based upon ‘ me vs the rest of the word ” or situation to situation.

    19. Reha

      Sangeeta,
      A) I am not sure what ‘blind support’ means here. I have never demanded support of any kind neither do I need one.
      B) the statement made by Bleh was correct, human genetics do contribute to the habit of smoking. It is surely possible that the link did not satisfy the reasoning you demanded, but what is the debate here? A copy paste error or the correctness of the statement ? According to me ( again my personal views… For clarifications ) it is the later. The statement is correct and so has been proved .
      C) I felt demeaned and rather objectified by reading what girl power wrote and thus offered my opinion . She went back and forth and used her share of fowl language which ended finally. Your ‘friend’ Ananya ( who I still think is the same person ) used language paring with that of 13 yr old teenager ( again, my personal opinion…. Just to clarify) which not only me, others recognized as well. All of this without one valid argument against any of the intellectual debate . Therefore I don’t see the reason nor the capacity of comparison . I’d say she was byfar the most inappropriate commentator on this post as her posts were lacking any material content.There would be others who would agree but then.. U’d call it my blind support I guess :).

    20. sangeeta

      Reha, Hmm, so a supposed “copy paste error” should be overlooked and English sentence formation is used to score points? My problem is with the manner of debate on this forum, anyway I don’t want to start another, since its completely off-topic. Whether smoking is genetic or not doesn’t interest me, its one of the points made by Bleh, to prove that newspapers are justified in publishing trashy material. That’s where it all started. About your stand-off with Girlpower and Ananya, pointing fingers can be done by both sides, so I will not speak for anyone here, already I have responded to Piyush on that one.(again, my opinion :-)). You are justified in having your opinion on women’s equality, although I may not agree, and have responded to you before on that topic.

    21. Reha

      I don’t think points were being scored over English composition anywhere, rather the ‘corrections’ you are pointing out were part of a larger discussion containing valid points. Please let me know if you would like some example copy and pastes and I’d gladly post some. None of my posts is solely dedicated to incorrect English usage, rather , an it an an Extension to a derogatory statement posted to me. I had not indulged in recreational fingerprinting on this forumn just because I wanted to point out someone’s English grammar alone which brings me to the whole girl power agenda blown out of proportion by you and ur alley ( note how it is singular)

      This is the statement you quoted : oman! I’m on your side against these idiots but please!! Better choice of words! Stop derogating yourself and the rest of us by calling us “materials of entertainment”! ”
      Now where here have I used a curse word for girlpower? I have called the opposers idiots and clearly sided with her. Have I not? I hope the” I am on your side” dint imply otherwise to you? ( you see one has to be careful )
      Secondly , what exactly is derogatory here? A simple clarification of the thought process in her reply would have amounted to a ” ok now I get the just of your otherwise unclear post” debate. But you din’t bother reading the reply posted by her in reply to this post of mine did you? In your terms, I’d like to take the opportunity to call his BLIND SIDING.
      Lastly, since the debate is about derogatory remarks, let me also try and quote your ally Ananya with some of the words she used to describe me, “Get some yoga classes , don’t get ur BP up, frustrated, loose cannon, unwanted display of arrogance, slap to the face, boiling and loosing your shit, fool, you are comical – join the circus” there are more but I lost the patience . Extremely polite and muuucch better than my ‘bullying comments” arnt they? Please entice me with a similar post by anyone else here until she jumped into the discussion?

      And like Manish said, she actually ruined this for a lot of us. Again, I hope you won’t call that a blind support too.
      Also please note, she jumped into an already dead argument without a valid discussion point.
      I am sure you have a valid explaination of this :)….SUPPORT?

    22. Reha

      Sangeeta, Sorry you felt that way. I wasn’t planning to come around as condescending rather expressing what I felt about the whole situation. Again, I my initial posts clearly showed my ideology against TOI. I am and shall be against the likes of Babar and those like girlpower who have clearly said words like “you want to see Deepika Padukone in short dresses, you don’t want to see them in salwar kameez”.
      If expressing my views without getting pressurized came across as condescending- then I guess I could be given that term.

    23. sangeeta

      Reha,

      Sometimes the way we express ourselves online just hits the wrong note and has an incorrect tone – understandable. Since we are our virtual selves here, rebukes should be taken in the right spirit, and not extended into a cat fight, going into English sentence formation. Nowhere did girlpower say that ” “you want to see Deepika Padukone in short dresses, you don’t want to see them in salwar kameez”.” – What she said was – “Its her job to please the audience. I’m sure you wouldn’t enjoy watching her in salwar kameez all the time”. There is a difference, key phrase being “all the time”. So if we do express our opinion, we should also not jump to conclusions, and take corrections or counter-opinions in the right spirit of debate. Anyway, peace.

    24. Reha

      Sangeeta, advocacy on someone else’s behalf is sure chivalrous however, when the grounds Of advocacy are based upon a ‘delayed support system’ the advocacy becomes irrelevant . Again, since we have ‘suddenly’ become opinionated, this is my opinion( an extended clarification)
      Firstly, the reply to girl power was posted 3-4 days ago and the discussion which amounted to the reply was a discussion you were an active part of! Therefore, how and why did I get the pleasure of your ‘ opinion’ after all this while. I would say it’s because you decided to jump on Ananya’s otherwise sinking ship but I won’t , lest I be called ‘ the queen of assumption’
      Secondly , what wrong did I write on my post when I asked girl power to stop categorizing? I clearly mentioned ‘ I don’t dress to please men’, was the ‘I’ not an ‘ implication’ of my viewpoints rather than a statement for all of humanity. I say this because we are all trying to suddenly be really over smart on our ‘finding faults’ skill , and this behavior is a recent addition.

      No one owns anyone’s opinion. If you and Ananya are entitled to one and ur defended friend who otherwise has no opinion other than hurling curse words here is allowed one, then why am I beig called out by you? Correct or otherwise, I HAVE and will continue to hold my ground on my opinion. Any disagreement is acceptable, but has to happen with ab amicable exchange of dialog.. Nt using words like “reha Aunty is having that time of month” or “go take yoga classes”.

    25. Piyush

      I was waiting for Reha to respond but I guess she’s not- so let me give my two cents.

      @Ananya:
      You have been the most abusive commentator on this forum. My issue is not with the views, my issue is with the profanity being used. It seems you don’t have a solid backing to defend your thoughts about the matter and hence are resorting to age old tactics of throwing profound words around to make the opposing party embarrassed enough that they quit.
      This is not the way topics are debated. Shameful that you had to resort to cheap tactics like this. Again, I am not against your thought process, but against the way you are using this forum to hurl dirty words around.

    26. Ananya

      I’m sorry, but you’re either plain biased or refuse to comprehend my point. Reha was using the tactic you mentioned here, trying to shame people into not replying again. Being condescending is as bad as swearing, rather, the former is more damaging. She was mocking peoples’ intelligence. That is no less lower than swearing. She was being a bully, plain and simple. I merely paid her back in her own coin, that is it.
      If you want to blindly stick to your guns and accuse me, then so be it.

    27. Ananya

      And btw, what do you mean by “I can’t see the material in her posts—just accusations”? I WAS accusing her, plain and simple.

    28. Bleh

      @ Ananya Well, all your posts are rather reflective of an uninformed mind. Your argument goes thus: “Someone demeaned me so I will cuss at them since I can’t really fight back with logic or intelligence. ”
      You have the freedom to cuss anyone, but you will obviously be taken on. In this case, you have brought it on yourself. How can you assume someone will not be condescending when you start cussing around? Smarter people throw of their intellect at the ‘cussers’. Remember the quintessential childhood bully in every high school. The more they cussed in rage in an attempt to gain control the more we thought less of them. And thus the condescension began. I am sure this strikes close to you 🙂
      @ Piyush, I am glad that the admins allow this. We do not need censorship in online forums. That is one of the few places where we still have a lot of freedom. We can always break the abusers down by ourselves.

    29. Ananya

      Bleh: So calling somebody a “16 year old” is not condescending and juvenile?
      And frankly speaking, I do know how informed or uninformed I am, so I don’t really need your perspective there. Sorry, but I have my own way of dealing with bullies, both in real and virtual. If somebody behaves in a demeaning fashion, it is for ME to decide how to respond. Whether I choose to be calm and witty or plain decide to cuss away, is my decision alone.

    30. Bleh

      @ Sangeeta: I would really like an example of when Reha focused on some insignificant detail (anywhere) and was condescending without being taken on first.

      And this was your reply to miriam’s post (or rather mine):
      “Loved your replies to all the mentally-sick points made above:-) ”
      Since points cannot be mentally sick, I assume it was directed at me. Hypocrisy much?

      Trust me, I was really condescending towards miriam. If you want an example of what condescension is, look at the post directed towards her.

      You hate to be proven wrong, don’t you? Well, sometimes that simply will not happen. And you can always satisfy your repleted ego with something else. Chocolates come to mind.

      ^^^ FYI this is being sarcastic and condescending.

    31. sangeeta

      Bleh,

      Real tired responding to all the counter-opinions, for your example please refer to my response to Piyush. I’ve had a discussion with Reha about the same too. When I said “mentally-sick points”, I meant the points coming from a mentally-sick mind (primarily because of the incest remark, which I have also referred to in the comment). Umm, that’s not condescending, its a negative opinion, so I cant be called a hypocrite.

    32. bleh

      @ Sangeeta You consider yourself not to be mentally sick (which is actually a very derogatory and condescending word—the more accepted form is mentally challenged) and so by calling someone else that you are looking down upon him/her—condescension. Again, you will not admit, pretty much to anything. And I cannot bullwhip you to do that. Whether one has an opinion about incest or any form of deviant sexuality does not make one ‘sick’. So yes, you can’t call out people for cussing, condescension or any other form of what you call “negative” comments.

  34. Reha

    personal attacks just show how frustrated you are at not having valid arguments to support anything you said :-). Victim blaming!! wow big words for an otherwise small mind.
    Now once you are done with your teenage tantrums and shooting abuses across, I’ll wait for a valid reasoning.
    Till then…. go and complete your homework.

    1. Ananya

      Darling, trying to act “brave” by telling me to “complete my homework”ain’t helping you disguise your exasperation.
      Get some yoga classes, you’re one stressed-out broad. Don’t get your BP up, kay honey?

      And yup, I repeat: What you did is tacit victim-blaming. Shifting the “responsibility of not getting raped” on women and saying that “oh, rapists are always gonna be there..” is a message similar to “Men will be men” or “Ladko se galti ho jaati hai”. Sound familiar?
      Now once you’ve done gritting your teeth, calm down and try to think up a valid counter-point. 🙂

    2. Reha

      Umm- “trying to act brave by asking me to complete my homework?”- What does that exactly mean? What would be brave about asking u to do your homework? Or am I missing a context here?
      Gritting my teeth? Over what? A silly comment on a article? U don’t get it do you? I and other’s like me are here for a discussion- not name calling and bad mouthing like a pair of drums like you.
      Now please- the next time you come back here- girlpower aka Ananya- I hope its a better content than these silly attempts

    3. Ananya

      “Other’s”?

    4. Bleh

      @ Ananya: You are comparing apples and oranges. I feel I am repeating some of the stuff I had said here somewhere else, but what the hell, one more time maybe.

      “oh, rapists are always gonna be there..” is a message similar to “Men will be men”

      Err how? Why? Rapists will be there simply means that crime will be there. And that rape as a crime may not be completely extinguished. There will always be that one rapist who will do it. And a prescription about being careful has nothing to do with condoning rape. Consider race crimes. They are universally acknowledged to be bad. Yet, you go to a white Russian neighborhood in the middle of Vladivostok and expect not a jeer, then you are being utopian.

      One more example to seal the deal. A lot of people wish that all people must earn equally for equal work. That won’t happen. Why? Utopia and economics are not friends. Neither is sociology.

      And why are you equating men with rapists implicity? “Men will be men” was an exact quote from a liquor ad. You imply that men being men will also be rapists. Seriously? And since you are pointing out others mistakes in English, please do not tell me that implication isn’t there. Or admit you have no clue of what you are saying there.

      Saying you need to keep you wallet in a safe place when you venture out at night and saying that you are to blame and not the pickpocket are two different things. Simple, is it not?

    5. Ananya

      Bleh: And where do we draw the lines in being “careful”? For you, it might end at not being in the midst of a deserted road at midnight in a revealing dress. But for several others, it might mean, “no going out alone for girls”, “no late-night parties for women”, “no pub/disco for women”, “no Western clothing/dressing as you please”, and so on and on. That is exactly how “victim-blaming and restricting womens’ freedom in the name of safety” starts. Not everybody subscribes to the same idea of “careful”, you know.
      Therefore, its better not to talk about what the women should do at all.

    6. Manish

      Hey Reha…Go easy on the kid yaar…:)
      You should know how it is…make her talk would you..?

    7. Reha

      Manish- darling she is back :). I don’t know what the girl is against- me or me ;). But I can’t do anymore back and forth- its rather useless. I’ve tried asking her what her thoughts are on the topic- if they are against what I think, sure! share them. As a matter of fact you and I started not completely agreeing with each other , however found a middle ground.
      I think I’m already hurled enough swear words for the day , so I’ll let her do the talking now 😀

    8. Bleh

      @ Manish, well cussing gets me mad as well. Especially in such forums with a huge misplaced superiority complex.

  35. Reha

    I usually do not stoop down to this level but here goes to nothing:

    wow! U seriously don’t get the ‘if I’m not using abusive language doesn’t mean I don’t know how to’ theory.. are you?
    Bullied! we have a psychiatrist here do we? So what are your analysis on yourself?
    Here’s what I think: probably you are a fuckface who gets thrashed by her parents for being born a girl and was repeatedly exploited during her growing up days by and uncle therefore tries to throw herself on any opportunity to show ‘women power’?
    I think i got it this time. Now take your whorish attitude and go suck on a lollypop 🙂

    I hope this made sense to you now- finally someone talking your language 😉

    1. Ananya

      Thanks for making a sincere effort, but nahh….you didn’t succeed. Just not “hitting” enough. Too far-fetched and unrealistic.
      I see the “bullying” comment hit a nerve. So I’ll assume my analysis was correct.
      Let’s take a look at your sentence:
      ” probably you are a fuckface who gets thrashed by her parents for being born a girl and was repeatedly exploited during her growing up days by and uncle therefore tries to throw herself on any opportunity to show ‘women power’”

      Are you the same person who was doling out English grammar lessons to Girlpower? Take a look at your own sentence missy, you brutally raped grammar and punctuation. 😀

      Kay? Now go and stew over this. Cya.

    2. Reha

      Hayee… such a cutie. Now what? You’ll return tomorrow with a new name and start the debate afresh? Lol… I am so glad you are finally simmering down! Aww should have told me earlier that u need some swearing back and that you only understand sentences garbled with trash talk to understand something.
      Ohh yea I was the same person ‘pointing’ out girlpower’s lack of a better vocabulary.
      and ‘DOLING OVER”? bwahaahaahaa. Do you even know what doling over means u silly kid? Doling over means a portion or allotment of money, food, etc., especially as given at regular intervals by a charity or for maintenance.
      Ahem ahem- nice heavy words …just the wrong place 😉

    3. Ananya

      Ohh……somebody still has the nerve to talk about English after being dealt such a slap to the face. Admire your resolution to stand your ground no matter how injured you are. That’s the spirit. *thumbs up* 🙂
      Aww, who is “simmering down” here again? Posts speak for themselves darling, and you fool no one. You can’t get to me no matter how hard you try. You, on the other hand, are boiling and losing your shit, which is quite evident from the sentence structuring and “rambling” style of writing.

      You’re comical. Ever thought of joining a circus?

    4. Manish

      Well, we’ve had some good discussions here.
      Everyone has taken some trash and given some..It happens all the time on the internet..so please relax…:)
      Ananya, If you are interested then you can go through the ‘extended’ issues we discussed. Give your opinion regardin that and then we may have a civil discussion here. I am hoping you could give us the educated, been-there-teenage-perspective on this.

      Further we could stop poinitng fingers at each other for the opinions we have(except for the likes of Babar)
      Lets cool down everyone.

      Finally, do girls really need leering men to make things difficult for them when this is what you do to each other..??!!

    5. Piyush

      I agree with Manish,
      We are here discussing a larger topic than hurling out swear words. Ananya- you mentioned you were a silent listener and then you decided to break the silence not to actually express your viewpoint but to use curse words against someone who was trying to express their views?
      Everyone is entitled to an opinion and so are you… provided you have one regarding the issue and not Rhea :). I personally enjoyed a discussion here so please don’t ruin the comment history with a wrong vibe.

    6. Ananya

      Manish: I’m not a teenager (if you really thought I was, that is, and not just trying to be condescending like Reha).

      My perspective is explained in another post. Btw, it was Reha’s attitude that forced me to comment here, and not the issue per se. Was just trying to show her the mirror on the juvenile behaviour she was exhibiting while ironically going around calling others “schoolgirls” and “kiddos”.

    7. Piyush

      Ananya- I do not see any post on this article by you which actually expresses you thoughts other than a post on another thread that too reeling out curse words as a reply to Rhea’s posts. That was the initial reason why I replied to you if you remember 🙂 that you came here just to hurdle curse words at people. There is not one substantial post showing your opinion even though all of us has repeatedly asked you to present one.
      And to present my thoughts- you might not be a teenager, but your tantrums surely represent one

    8. Reha

      Ananya,
      I am not sure what attitude you are pointing to. You came to this post to read the comments ? Explicitly my comments? doesn’t make sense. It also doesn’t make sense that people like Babar who are blankly against women rights did not win the pleasure of your reply but I did!!Surprise surprise!
      I would have understood if you had issues with them, but you had issues with my answer to girlpower who clearly was objectifying women. Amazing again!
      Finally, for the nth time- do you have a counter argument for any of the points i made in the forum (the intellectual discussions)?

      If you do then I will be glad to entertain them, if not, then sorry darling, but I’m officially done replying to any of your posts anymore.

    9. Ananya

      Anyway, let me detail it out on here—the perspective y’all were asking for.
      I think TOI has, as this article points out, contributed to the “rape culture” by trying to point out what Deepika voluntarily exposed in movies and events. As a woman and a concerned citizen, this is the kind of attitude we are trying to fight and root out daily, but failing to do so. There is centuries of conditioning involved right down from the era of pastoral tribes, when women were “looted” like property. And along with it, the act of rape was somehow “normalised” in the pyches of men. Somehow, a large portion of society subconsciously believes that rape is as normal for men as a carnivore’s tendency to hunt for meat. The “educated, urban, sophisticated” section of society (like us) who are educated in the principle of political correctness, know to suppress those thoughts with logic. However, it still finds its way out through periodic outbursts like TOI’s, who effectively “slut-shamed” Deepika in trying to defend themselves.

    10. Ananya

      Piyush: I can’t help it if you keep repeating the same thing over and over. And no, I don’t think I threw any “tantrums” here. And if my posts made me sound like a teen in your view (I’m not sure how that was possible), then Reha sounded like a stuck-up, arrogant bully in mine. And somebody agrees with me as well. Maybe you choose to forego her attitude for some reason which is best known to you and you alone. 😉

    11. Piyush

      Ananya- do I have to copy and paste your initial comments to show how you acted and used curse words? You did sound like a teenager. Apart from the recent post you made (which is still not clear), not one post had content. This is a serious topic of discussion!
      Also, we are not calling anyone arrogant or bully simply because of a opinion they carry. Have you bothered to read the initial comments? People have asked women to cover up and even called all this Deepika’s fault. So you warrant those comments? Or are those people just wonderful in your sense?
      I am not taking anyone’s side here, I am just being the voice of logic- why waste your night hurling accusations and just accusations without a solid viewpoint on the actual topic?

    12. Reha

      Ananya, if you notice, not one person apart from you even bothered commenting on my posts (though I wanted a debate). Darling, there are others like Bleh, Sanjeev, Yohaan and Babar whose viewpoints generated actual TRP and initiated chain discussions! What also funny is that you have decided to ignore heated discussions like those and decided to target me (which is just a side of mirch masala on this boring friday afternoon).
      Are we also counting the number of people who you need to support you so you can make a point? Then here, take my support too, but at-least have a point. Its not like you’ll be able to pull my hair or punch me, so lets call it a day and make peace k? We are on the same side, just have a different approach.

    13. Ananya

      Reha: I did not bother to reply to the likes of Babar since he was already well-countered by many in the forum. You on the other hand, were like a loose cannon, going about glowering at folks who did not agree with you.
      As for the exchange between you and girlpower, yep, I have issues with your unwarranted display of arrogance there. Firstly, you misinterpreted her comments and twisted them to suit yourself. First off, there is nothing wrong to dress for the attention of the opposite sex. Everybody at some point wants to come across as desirable to the opposite (or same sex in case of homosexuals) sex, its natural and there’s absolutely nothing wrong or self-demeaning about it. That’s what girlpower was trying to say, and you twisted it to mean something else and started a rant on how “you” dressed only for yourself and none else. The discussion was not on you but in general.

      Secondly, about her comment on “men don’t always want to see Deepika in salwars”. Again, it was nothing objectionable. Everybody wants to “drool” over their favourite actors/actresses, and there’s nothing wrong with wanting to see Deepika in a bikini once in a while, like there’s nothing wrong in wanting to watch my favourite hero go shirtless on screen. You got incensed needlessly over that comment too, and started to ramble which made zero sense. Overall, you tried painting her comments as something objectionable when they were not.

      It was this precise attitude of your that got my goat, and I thought to make you go through a similar experience (of being talked down to and belittled). I hope, truly hope you won’t be repeating that kind of attitude anytime soon.

      Hope I answered all your queries. Feel free to ask should there be more.

    14. Reha

      Ananya- I’ll first answer your very last question:
      If you think filthy words would make me change what I think- then sorry darling- you picked the wrong person ;). You should have realized that being the ‘bully’ I am, I encounter people like you all the time. All you do is add a little flavor to the day.

      Next, let me quote girlpower word by word “And FYI, Miss Padukone is in the film industry, and to highlight it, she’s in the prime limelight at the moment. Its her job to please the audience.”

      My reply to this was- sorry I do not wear clothes to please the men- I wear them because I like it.
      If you understood something from what girlpower wrote which I din’t, then yea sorry for misunderstanding her, but how was my response incorrect?

      Secondly, her comment about wearing salwaar kameez “I’m sure you wouldn’t enjoy watching her in salwar kameez all the time. A versatile actors gotta do what a versatile actors gotta do… And yes, There’s no need for an actor like her to dress vulgar to promote herself. But where’s all the intelligence, people? Fashion is the basic component of the film industry today. And when Deepika is attired in a bikini, I admit she’s sexy”

      how is what I said in any way wrong? I said- “I hate it when Indian women objectify themselves. Why is this bullying?
      Again, its my views against a third party- if you had a substantial comment, you could have posted it in a civilized manner, however you decided not to, therefore meriting a reply in your “preferred language.”

      I do have an attitude, but that is against women being the biggest enemies of this whole feminist revolution. They first decide to objectify themselves (note :item songs) and put themselves in obviously questionable situations knowing it is going to land them in trouble and then raise debates about how women should be empowered.

      Like I said before, it will take 2 generations of educated men to die in this country for this country to be truely accepting of women. And we as women, should be informed and responsible – just not harp the tune of feminism and go about landing ourselves in trouble. Change is gradual… you cannot just wake up and have a whole country reform.. its going to take time and we will have to be patient is all I am saying.

    15. Ananya

      Piyush: Nobody called her a bully simply for stating her opinions. Anyway, I can’t drag this on and on. You clearly understand my issue but are intent on pretending otherwise. Let it go now.

    16. Reha

      Ananya.. darling calm down. I might have across as a bully and for the last time- I am sorry if you felt that way. I was just trying to express a opinion .. and a very strong one that is.

    17. Ananya

      You wrote, “I do not wear clothes to please the men, I wear it because I like it”.
      No, nothing was wrong with this statement itself. What WAS wrong, was that it was misdirected. From what I understood, nowhere was girlpower trying to state that women should dress SOLELY for the pleasure of men. Not to mention, the overall tone of your post was aggressive.

      And btw, wearing something in my personal life is way different from what I have to do if I’m in the movies and have to sustain a career. And in the present patriarchal set up, commercial actresses have to portray themselves in a “sexy” manner from time to time, be it donning bikinis or grooving to item numbers. Yes,it sucks. But it IS the reality, and that is what I think girlpower was trying to say. Deepika dons a bikini from time to time to please the audience in the current system, it is something she cannot possibly avoid. I don’t think it was justifying objectification in any way.
      Plus, I don’t think drooling at a skimpily-clad actress on the screen necessarily translates to groping or leering at women in real life. A sane man should and does know the difference, as we women do even though we sigh orgasmically at the hot dudes that flaunt their stuff onscreen.

      I didn’t see “objectification of women” anywhere in her comment, which is why your anger and indignance came across as misdirected.

      About your attitude, keep it or reject it, its your call. But do remember that its not as much fun when the shoe is on the other foot. Believe me, I’ve encountered virtual bullies in a hell lot of forums I’m a part of, and I’ve a track record of setting ’em straight. 😉 Its a kind of hobby I got. 😛
      But if you were not intending to be a bully at all, then no issues. Misunderstanding resolved.

    18. Reha

      You say she din’t mean that women should dress ‘SOLELY’ for the purpose of men- agreed, did I say anywhere she meant that? No- I objection is that women ‘should’ not dress for the purposes of pleasing men- they should dress for what looks and feels good to them (please re-read the comments). I did not mention anywhere that SOLELY was implied , therefore your first argument is invalid because you pose my attempts of debate as a ‘misunderstood assumption’, likewise, your comments are ‘misunderstood assumptions’ on my comments.

      Secondly, I am not against Deepika wearing what she wears. Rather what is the harm in wearing a bikini? I have repeatedly written that what a women wears, is at a sole discretion to her liking and disliking. The whole debate of real vs reel is stupid- wear what you want! real or reel! Can you point me to a comment I made otherwise?
      Did any of us (except Babar) equate lusting over an on-screen actress with rape or sex? I don’t think it is! We all lust! As a matter of fact, women lust over men too! I think the point you are not getting is that Deepika is aware that men lust over her, he knows the tradeoff of being a sex symbol (atleast I hope), which is that men will at some point use her pictures for recreational activities- is that a surprise for women here? I don’t think it should be. I don’t understand what is the hype over?

      And Finally, your record is about to break darling- cause I don’t get intimidated by curse words or loud directs, what intimidates me is knowledge, better than mine, or an opinion which I cannot seem to fathom. Neither of these were presented by you- therefore, the whole “setting me straight” ain’t gonna work which also means that you just graduated the ‘high school of bullies’ but this ‘bully’ (as has been marketed by you now) is way outta your league 😉
      Ciao for now… was nice talking to you (atleast you had an opinion about me which I was missing in this debate till now)

    19. Manish

      Ananya, I wasn’t trying to be condescending. From the anger and passion you were diaplaying to ‘bully down the bully’, i really thought you wud give us the teenager’s perspective..:o
      I frankly would accept a responsible grown up girl to skim over the “you are bullying or you are condescending” part.
      Don’t we learn to take these things in our stride (not in real life mind you, just on the internet…hundreds of people saying anything because its just our virtual selves, right?)

      So well, it may not matter to you but you spoiled this for a few of us..:(

      Well, No hard feelings..We know that you aren’t a teenager..:)

      The real discussion is sadly lost under the wreckage now.
      We are not talking rape or ‘rape culture’.
      I don’t think its correct to assume that there is a ‘subconscious belief that rape is normal’

      Nobody in their right minds would believe that. Those you think do so, are the ones who need to die out before we can have men who don’t go salivating on seeing a women’s skin.

      Thats why, for the time being, The law needs to be perfect and women/girls alike need to act responsibly.

      Rhea…Thankss..:)

    20. Bleh

      @ Ananya: Looking at grammar: Not really my expertise, but hey, you at least have to write correctly when you are pointing out others’ mistakes.

      “Just not “hitting” enough. Too far-fetched and unrealistic.”
      These are phrases and not sentences, as in there is no subject. You fail once.

      “Let’s take a look at your sentence”
      What does having a look at someone’s sentence mean? You surely wish to say sentence construction or grammar. You fail again.

      And again, since:
      “you brutally raped grammar and punctuation.”

      How can you “rape” grammar and/or punctuation? I thought raping was a sociological concept related to people…

      “Now go and stew over this. ”

      Stew over this? Give me a break! Well, you have just demonstrated par excellence how not to write in proper English. This screenshot is going for Reddit posterity.

    21. Ananya

      Reha, you’re not getting the point here. Nobody actually used the word SOLELY. It was implied. Girlpower had written, “Fashion is a basic component of the industry she (Deepika) is in today”. And your response was, “I wear something because I like it—not because its easy on the eyes for some”. You clearly implied that she (Girlpower) was saying that we should all dress solely for men, which she was not. THAT was what I was talking about.
      Also, you said that girlpower was calling women “materials of pleasure” for men where she had not done so anywhere (I didn’t find it anywhere in her posts). Maybe you can explain how you interpreted that.
      Above all, the needlessly aggressive stance you took was deplorable. It was not so much your misinterpretation of a post, as the tone of writing it, that rankled with me.

      And nope, I don’t think my record is broken yet. 😉 I wasn’t trying to stop you from expressing your viewpoints, just correct your way of presentation.

    22. Ananya

      Manish: When I talked about “subconscious normalisation of rape”, I was pointing to Rape Culture. Telling a woman in ANY form that she was “asking for it”, is rape culture.
      In the pastoral ages, when tribes clashed against one another, victory of one “Jan” against the other (as in the Early Vedic Age) resulted in not only material plunder, but also in the carrying off of women and their rape, mostly in an attempt to stall the continuation of the enemy’s lineage and to propagate their own. Maybe this is how rape came to be ingrained into the male psyche?
      There is a staggering population out there who believe that “Men are naturally unable to control themselves if they see a scantily-clad woman”, and hence it is very “normal” for a man to leer or pounce upon a woman. The idea is believed by a huge population, as was reflected in MSY’s “ladko se galti ho jaati hai” remark, amidst countless other “advises” for women to wear salwar kameez or get married at 15! If you remember some politicos’ comments post the Nirbhaya incident.

      THIS attitude was what I meant by “subconscious normalisation of rape” in some peoples’ psychology.
      That “men cannot do anything if women don’t control themselves” attitude we so frequently encounter.

    23. Ananya

      Okay Reha, if you say so.

    24. Bleh

      @ Manish….perfectly summed up what we wish to say in the last post you made here. It is abnormal behavior to subconsciously want to rape. Gain control, yes to some extent. But that leads to plays and experimentation with BDSM. Even evolutionary biology says that we (men or women) have no intrinsic motivation to rape. Since that will bring in confrontations with the larger subgroup (or the alpha) in some cases. So yes, from a pure individual psychological standpoint, what you said is perfectly true.

      The other essence of our discussion was women (and men) need to be aware of their surroundings, their peers, and their fellows with respect to the way they dress, behave or even act. While having more than a smattering to drink is perfectly acceptable in some situations, in some others it is not. But it is still individual freedom. As is the right to be covered with tattoos from head to toe. One must not confuse practicality with ideologies.

      And one of your major points was about certain societal sections being more susceptible to raping. This actually IMO is partly true and is important, and if you want we can actually talk about it. No one talks about it because no one wants to. And the dumber ones stereotype the ‘bhaiyas’ and the jats for being ‘hot blooded’ or whatever that means which is very detrimental. Hence I initially rejected your point since I thought you may have thought the same. But I find you are much better than that, so I will agree with you on this, with some mild reservations. But still a restrictive media is not the answer.

    25. Ananya

      Bleh: I don’t find any mistakes in my English, at least not when you compare it to the sentence construction and foregoing of punctuations displayed by Reha.
      Btw, most of what you said are incorrect and display your ignorance of figures of speech and colloquiality. And to “stew” over something means to “boil” over something. It is a verb. Go consult the word in the Cambridge dictionary.
      And, to “have a look at your sentence” isn’t wrong, maybe just lacking in specification. Also, sentences without subjects (like “not hitting enough”) are not considered “wrong” when said in a conversational manner. I assume you read books sometimes.
      And to “rape” also means to pillage or destroy.

      Overall, things you laboriously tried to point out are done by everybody on this forum including you and are NOT the same as writing without knowledge of basic grammar and punctuation.
      Try better next time, okay?

      P.S. Re-posted this since I replied in the wrong place.

    26. bleh

      @ Ananya
      1. I guess my initial accusation holds and that you do consider all men to be implicitly rapists. Or that is what you stated at least, which might or might not be a Freudian slip.
      2. Just because the line is not defined does not mean there is no line at all. And the line need not be set by anyone else, but by the person her/ himself. So no one can (or should) force me not to venture out in the middle of the night in an area frequented by criminals. That is my right, and anyone forcing me is infringing on my rights. Except, if something happens it happens to me and not anyone else. I am the victim, whether or not I like to be. I can blame society and its evils, but I am still the victim.
      Here though, the scenario is a bit different. I neither consider Deepika to be at fault for wearing whatever she wants, or even for her statements. But TOI, FHM, Maxim, or whatever magazine need not be policed as to what they should and should not publish. I feel there is a definite demand and need for trashy stuff. Simply consider all the B movies made in Hollywood in the 80s. Or some of the horror flicks with gratuitous nudity. They serve no purpose, and that is exactly the point. Alcohol serves no purpose, neither does spending money on extravagances or luxuries.
      A perfect world would be just like bricks in the wall.

      Which is exactly why they still should belong. I do not know whether you had a different handle before or not, but I thought you and I were actually on the same page with some things (or not since I didn’t go through everything).

    27. bleh

      Don’t want to repost. Too many sub-threads are messing things up. As I think happened to you before. You know what you wrote. Just reply here.

    28. Ananya

      No Bleh, “men will be men” is a phrase which is often used to underline all the behavioural peculiarities of men, including the sexual waywardness that is thought to be innate in the male species. Therefore, its not just a tagline for an ad, but also a way of saying that its natural for men to “lose control”. See what I mean?

      On restrictions, the problem is that its not always “us” that gets to make our choices or set limits on all our activities. In a patriarchal set-up, it is often the “family authorities” (Father, Mother, Grandparents, Khap Panchayats) who set to make decisions for women who they view as infantile beings, always requiring “guidance” and “protection”. And, as you so correctly pointed out, this is far from an ideal world where each of us get the freedom to form our own decisions. Hence, any emphasis on “what limits women can set” won’t remain restricted to the “self-made decisions” of the woman, but will ultimately be extended to the “authorities” that “rule” her life. In simpler terms, its not always the woman who gets to make the decisions about her own life in our society. Others make rules for her. Therefore, talking in detail about “limits” would only fuel this further. That is what I was trying to point out.

    29. Ananya

      TOI, as a media house, holds every right to publish anything they deem worth exploiting and gaining TRPs out of. But here, what they did was morally reprehensible (since it upholds invasion of somebody’s privacy and posting something without their consent). Now this might spark off a separate debate about limits and ceilings that the freedom of the media should be subjected to.

    30. Ananya

      All said and done, I’d agree that women (who have the privilege of living life on their own terms) should indeed take precautions stemming from good ol’ common sense, but the way we address it in public should be a little cautiously worded so as to not encourage regressive attitudes towards women.

  36. Ananya

    Bleh: I don’t find any mistakes in my English, at least not when you compare it to the sentence construction and foregoing of punctuations displayed by Reha.
    Btw, most of what you said are incorrect and display your ignorance of figures of speech and colloquiality. And to “stew” over something means to “boil” over something. It is a verb. Go consult the word in the Cambridge dictionary.
    And, to “have a look at your sentence” isn’t wrong, maybe just lacking in specification. Also, sentences without subjects (like “not hitting enough”) are not considered “wrong” when said in a conversational manner. I assume you read books sometimes.
    And to “rape” also means to pillage or destroy.

    Overall, things you laboriously tried to point out are done by everybody on this forum including you and are NOT the same as writing without knowledge of basic grammar and punctuation.
    Try better next time, okay?

    1. bleh

      Ah but I have never claimed to be a perfectionist while writing in English, neither am I saying Reha’s usage there was immaculate. But if you are trying to blast others, you have to be perfect yourself. Using a sentence without a subject is still a phrase, like it or not. And your usage was not idiomatic so its not pardoned.
      You can’t have a look at my sentence. The sentence is not a belonging and your personification is erroneous. And you cannot destroy a sentence, nor pillage it. Too bad ananya. You lose.

    2. Ananya

      I don’t lose, simply because I did not flout any basic rules of grammar while typing my sentences, and “using phrases for sentences” is an an accepted way of talking, and this is an online CONVERSATION we’re having.
      So no, I don’t lose.
      And yes, the rules of grammar can be “pillaged”, as in, brutally flouted.

    3. bleh

      Rules of grammar and not a sentence can be pillaged. Using run ons, dangled modifiers…pretty much anything Reha was guilty of is an accepted way of talking as well. I thought we were trying to be proper here.

    4. Piyush

      Ananya, you mentioned about how Reha was incorrect in doing he cap of being the English moderator during her discussions with Ananya.
      So what are you currently doing? I see the same happening here! So should I now start with the “frustrated aunty” life lessons you were imparting? I can be rather creative and add more… Because you and Sangeeta stopped making any logical sense anymore. It’s like you have decided to personally attack commentators here.

      Honest request to Sangeeta and Ananya, please do us a favor and firstly leave this discussion never to come back and ,quoting a line by miriam, do not procreate.. It will be a curse to have versions of you .

    5. Piyush

      Before the brunt of Ms English hits me.. It’s doning a cap 😉

    6. sangeeta

      Piyush – I can hurl accusations at Bleh, Reha and you for personally attacking commentators here too. Easy to do that. (I would refute it by saying, not once have I gone personal – I have instead been called “having a big ego”, “assumed not having access to science journals”, etc etc by Bleh here. ). I have refuted specific comments/references made by them. Clearly I see you are indeed a blind supporter. I will not even honour your last part of the comment with a reply.

    7. Ananya

      Piyush: Much in the same way your buddy Reha, with her puny intelligence and defective reasoning, accused me of being girlpower, should I now accuse you and Reha of being one and the same?

    8. Piyush

      Sure , since Tat for tat is your game- go ahead! I would have been surprised if this ended without you hurdling further accusations.
      Are you sure you are not 13?

    9. Reha

      Bwahaahaahaa … And you strike again! So since there is nothing relevant left anymore, you’ll start with this whole Piyush, reha, Bleh and Manish are the same people right?
      Lord woman!! Grow up please. It’s certainly not required to answer everything and furthermore, it’s also not required to always copy and paste people’s ideas :p… Go make a better comeback and stop copying me 😉

    10. Ananya

      Are you sure you’re not Reha? You display the exact same mannerisms. And about being 13-year old, I see you’re going all over the place ranting against me and Sangeeta. You sure that’s not behaving like a, what, 11-year old?

    11. Ananya

      Reha: Don’t you have anything better to do with your life rather than to keep posting with two IDs, Reha and Piyush?
      I pity you. Not being sarcastic. And btw, that “bwahahaha” sounds quite 13-ish.

    12. Reha

      Just following suit girlpower aka Ananya :). Question is what is a “supercool” GIRL like you (make you feel better on not being addressed as a woman?) doing on a saturday night ? Get a life silly girl! Its a lazy saturday morning and I’m entertaining myself to a game of humor (believe me I love the irritated back slashes) with a funny little girl who thinks she is super strong and super convincing with her witty use of cuss words .

    13. Ananya

      And wait a second, you can’t resist replying to me, and yet advise me on not “replying to everything”? Darling, are you for real honey? Not only are your comprehensive faculties under-developed, you leave much to be desired in the “self-respect” department. And what—who copy-pasted what?

    14. Reha

      How many times will you ask me about my reality? Lets take a different route- No I’m Siri.. not real at all 😛 Hope this contents your sad heart.

    15. Ananya

      Since you’ve proved yourself thoroughly incapable of comprehension, I don’t see the point in pressing this any further. Enjoying humour? Darling, you need to be aware of the nuances of colloquiality before you can appreciate humour, so I’ll assume you’re just bluffing. 🙂
      ‘Supercool’? Aww, look who’s being “high school” now. Way to turn the joke on yourself.
      I cannot decide which one you need more at this moment– classes in spoken English or Counselling sessions.

    16. Reha

      1)Since you’ve proved yourself thoroughly incapable of comprehension, I don’t see the point in pressing this any further. [Reha]- Thankyou, I am glad you are leaving.

      2)Enjoying humour? [Reha] Yeeeesssss 😀

      3)Darling,[Reha] Tell me darling.

      4)you need to be aware of the nuances of colloquiality before you can appreciate humour, so I’ll assume you’re just bluffing. 🙂 [Reha] No I wasen’t. What made you think so?
      5)‘Supercool’? Aww,[Reha] Thankyou, I told you I was, you just weren’t agreeing

      6)look who’s being “high school” now. [Reha] You are
      7) Way to turn the joke on yourself.[Reha] Please don’t talk about yourself. I’ll take the responsibility.
      8) I cannot decide which one you need more at this moment classes in spoken English or Counselling sessions.[Reha] which one are you taking? I’ll join the same batch.

    17. Ananya

      Reha, read your posts again. You’re losing your touch babe. Especially the last response was so lame and forced. You need to learn how to ‘hit’ in the right places. I see the “tough Reha” shell cracking and the real cry-baby coming out. Tch tch. Accept it babes, you’re no match for mel, not even close.
      If you want some improvement, give up your lame-arse justifications of yourself and do what I said. Take English classes. Gaining knowledge of colloquial English and the tones used in various forms of address, would help you comprehend what I’m trying to tell ya. It’d also help in sharpening your comebacks in a verbal duel.

    18. Reha

      Aww do I smell frustration now? silly responses tend to irritate our lil baby Ananya? I can almost picture you now feverishly typing really fast..heehee. Carry on babydoll. But sorry to burst your bubble, but nope, you are just a fun and feisty saturday afternoon :D. Come on, amuse me more please

    19. Ananya

      me*

    20. Ananya

      If only you could understand who is the “amusement” here, darling. 😉
      I see you still haven’t understood that starting your sentence with “Woman!” was offensive. 😀
      I can’t imagine what a laugh riot you must beget in the real world.

    21. Reha

      Ananya Hun…. U nd ur Bhenji aaproach.. Comedy circus… Seriously? How about Cirque de Soleil ? I don’t know anyone there but you will surely get a gig.. Solely on merit ;). The only change needed is letting go of these cheap ‘Ananya’ tactics ( d name suits u though)
      Nd about me being a laughing stock .. Only if u knew how many people mocked u in the ‘virtual world’ ( need I count) , you surely come across as someone with no social presence . The level of insult you’ve faced by multiple people is amazing!! Those tiny hands type fast (teheehee)

    22. Ananya

      I see my comment pinched hard, as it should, 😉
      Continue blabbering, won’t change the facts. And btw, “heehee” makes you sound mental. Just a suggestion.

    23. Reha

      I luv it how you ” see the comments” . And it’s teehee… Not heehee. Anyways my luv .. We will have to break up now, it was good while it lasted but now I’m past it ( background music)
      I’ll have to end this affair of ours cause unlike u sitting late night on this forum( great social life) I have a Saturday to enjoy.
      TTYL YFW!!

    24. Ananya

      ” Bhenji”? What da faq is that? Darling, adults don’t say words like that, teenies do. Slowly but surely, you are revealing yourself. I see why you choose to insult people by calling them teenagers. Its because you ARE one yourself, as your language and “heehee” proves. No problem darling, I don’t look down upon teens. You can stop pretending to be an adult. 🙂

    25. Ananya

      Re-posting here so you won’t miss:

      Bye girlie. Have a good night. Btw, its not ” luv”, its ” love”. If you’re going to pretend to be an adult online, maintain the act. Don’t go ballistic under pressure and reveal your true self. : P
      Hope you learnt a lesson and won’t repeat the mistakes you made here. No hard feelings, don’t sulk.

    26. Ananya

      Bleh: No, going on for ten words without any punctuation in between is not an accepted form of writing online as far as I know. It gives out the impression of breathlessness.

    27. bleh

      An impression of breathlessness? When were you a part of Sangeeta’s impressionist movement? I am not impressed at all 😛

    28. Ananya

      Bye girlie. Have a good night. Btw, its not ” luv”, its ” love”. If you’re going to pretend to be an adult online, maintain the act. Don’t go ballistic under pressure and reveal your true self. : P
      Hope you learnt a lesson and won’t repeat the mistakes you made here. No hard feelings, don’t sulk

  37. Sangeeta

    @Bleh:
    Glanced through your replies, came across this: Your quote:
    ” 2. You said “Smoking doesn’t come from genes!”
    There is a gene related to susceptibility to smoking, similar to the alcoholism gene discovered. Just one reference for you. Seriously, you are stuck at elementary grade biology. There is a world out there dude. And you are simply lost.

    van Rooij, Iris ALM, et al. “Smoking, genetic polymorphisms in biotransformation enzymes, and nonsyndromic oral clefting: a gene-environment interaction.” 2001″

    Bleh,
    I checked that link, since I know a little about oral clefting and this is what is says:

    “Mothers who smoked and carried the GSTT1-null genotype, however, had an increased risk for having a child with oral clefting compared with nonsmokers with the wild type genotype.”

    FYI, oral clefting is a physical deformity that occurs in the development of a foetus, in the lips/palate – otherwise called cleft lip/palate. The article says that maternal smoking during pregnancy may cause oral clefting in the baby.

    My question to you:
    HOW DOES THIS MEAN THAT SMOKING IS GENETIC?
    Sorry, I initially respected your opinion, but now I seriously doubt all your claims based on all your “references”. And this is what I mean by “pseudo-intellectual”.

    1. bleh

      http://www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/news/20100426/smoking-genes-indentified

      This is a more direct reference. As for the last one, it mentionsit in passing, while the main article is about genetic deformities in smoking. Or sciencedirect gave me a wrong link. Either way, your reading the abstract and not going through the methods doesn’t help. Since some of this stuff is mentioned in the use of controls/ limitations.
      Secondly, smoking is not purely genetically determined. The gene just creates a predisposition. As in the alcoholism gene. If you are refuting someone you really have to be thorough. Go back to the drawing board till then…

    2. bleh

      Pardon my typos if you will. It is hard to construct perfect sentences from an aging HTC.
      Should read via smoking. Not in.

    3. Sangeeta

      Oh, so others make typos and minor grammatical errors, and you and others make issues out of it, – in your case , you have posted an entirely wrong link, not related to your point at all, and that should be overlooked and not refuted!
      And your excuse for it is – “Or sciencedirect gave me a wrong link.” – how does a website give a wrong link , we are not internet illiterates here! And then you have the audacity to say: “If you are refuting someone you really have to be thorough. Go back to the drawing board till then…” Talk about hating to be proved wrong! (as you claim I do in your earlier post)

    4. bleh

      My typos were typos because this website has no mobile version and it is rather hard to type detailed replies from a mobile. Now you are arguing just for the sake of it.
      Have you ever used Science DIrect or Web of Science or some other scholarly search engine? I don’t think you even have access. You put in a query and the results return matches which are anywhere in the whole article. Since the link of smoking to genes is now textbook material, I assumed my link would contain an explanation in a substantial manner. Except it didn’t (in the abstract which you skimmed). Whereupon I provided you with a more relevant and direct link. Which says my point is right. And that your argument is just being redundant. Probably next time you will say I put in an extra w to a link and, oh horror of horrors, what a sacrilege!
      Do go back to the drawing board. Try to prove my hypotheses wrong, instead.

    5. sangeeta

      BLEH, your statement “Have you ever used Science DIrect or Web of Science or some other scholarly search engine? I don’t think you even have access.” This is the problem with pseudo-intellectuals like you- making sweeping assumptions about someone just for the sake of argument. FYI, I do have access to scholarly scientific websites, nothing new to me – I feel you are pretty naive to enter keywords such as ” smoking” ” gene” and then paste the first link that appears – I have done research into oral clefting and cannot understand why a study about smoking being genetic should even be referenced in it, it’s out of context. And no, I would not worry about an extra ‘w’ , that’s more up your alley to be so petty. I cannot really believe any of your claimed facts about anything, let alone your hypothesis, because for me you have lost credibility.

    6. bleh

      If I tell you now, that you do not have a doctoral degree in biology you will probably say you do. Since your ego has been hurt, you will pretty much contradict any generalization made about you. Including that your ego has been hurt 🙂
      I am not writing a journal article and hence not concerned with plagiarism or mis-referencing, especially when I gave you better ones. If you go one about that point, you are missing the story. Which you tend to do since you anyways thought that the purpose of this discussion was nothing.
      You know what, Deepika herself might not have thought so much about her statements. The stuff we are discussing here goes much above the realm of what she did or did not say.
      Your contribution ultimately was nil. Even though you labored and labored and tried to make some point. Manish made some original points, I did and Reha made many. Hell, even miriam had some things to offer. You had nothing. Really. Zilch. And you are so stuck up with yourself that you are beyond recognizing what someone is trying to say. Instead you are like ‘ Reha/bleh said something against me, I need to get back at her. ‘ Doesn’t help. Come up with an actual refutation and I can look at it. NoBollocks

    7. Piyush

      I would have said “hear hear” followed by a symbol of clapping hands but then Sangeeta would start propogating the rant of being a blind supporter .
      But then, I had said the same thing yesterday : no content or material in the arguments of Ananya and now Sangeeta.
      So hey! Heck with it.. If voicing one’s opinion which syncs woh someone else’s just on the plain grounds of what is correct vs what is not is called blindly supporting, then that’s what I will have to do! … So says Sangeeta .

    8. sangeeta

      Piyush,

      Wow, this coming from someone who has not spelled out his views till now, just a clap here and there. Just FYI , my view was yesterday (this was a response to Reha) : “Great, so if I put this in perspective, your (Reha’s) words – “we discussed how the women should be ready to bear the burden of the consequences of their behaviors/actions. We discussed how a truly informed and forward women could avoid a lot of actions and how the societies in the rest of the world are no different from what is being observed in India” – you are basically saying that Deepika should be ready to accept TOI’s behaviour because she has posed in a similar manner earlier. Or is this discussion, not related at all to the TOI-Deepika issue??:-) correct me if I’m wrong here.
      My two bits – societies around the world need to change their mindset if that’s the case – a wardrobe malfunction such as some cleavage showing should not be pointed out in a manner akin to school boys by a national publication (or any websites under its control). A national publication influences society, and hence it should be more responsible in its actions. And if its not – a female protesting it does not make her a pseudo-feminist or even a feminist – I think its a question of basic human decency that’s all.”

      This is just one of the comments I made. And the context in which it was made was the this whole pseudo-feminist brouhaha started by Reha and company.
      I think I have made my opinion known, and if I have to be lambasted for pointing out Bleh’s error, then so be it, funny world! “Idiot” was a word used by Reha for her opponents in response to girlpower, not to mention starting the post with “Woman!”. I would be offended if someone addressed me in that manner, which explains the chain of reactions thereafter. And then accusing her falsely (which I will not get into here, please follow the posts).

    9. Reha

      So now we have a new term! “Reha and Company”. How about Reha’s Company Pvt Limited? Or Reha LLC? Sangeeta, I thought you’d have a stronger character than Ananya’s and not refute to name calling but I have sadly been proven wrong. You started off with an interesting discussion which ended amicably between all parties and we agreed and disagreed on numerous grounds without this childish tantrum introduced by Ananya.
      Unfortunately, you’ve fallen suit. I think this is where I shall refrain from any further discussion with you. Truly a shame!

    10. sangeeta

      Reha,
      You got offended with me saying “Reha and company”?? I did not even blink when you kept saying “you and your ally”. Sorry but we do seem to have different perceptions on what is offensive.

    11. Reha

      Did I say I was offended? Or is this another of your “implied assumptions?” I am rather amused, not offended. Please continue the verbage of the term, I feel privileged. Is this clear enough or need I clarify in a more convincing and clear manner?

    12. sangeeta

      Reha, you said “Sangeeta, I thought you’d have a stronger character than Ananya’s and not refute to name calling but I have sadly been proven wrong” . Now when you claim “Reha and company” is name-calling, and name-calling is generally used to offend, so assumed so. Don’t get me started on all your “implied” meanings that you have derived from the various discussions here, and based your arguments on.

    13. Reha

      But weren’t you saying my implications were incorrect and trying to convince me? The whole Ananya and Sangeeta debate is now over that you can’t refrain from implications and assumptions either?
      Well, its settled then, isn’t it? I was right all along!! 😀

    14. sangeeta

      Umm, your reply was quite undecipherable. The last part “I was right all along” – don’t even know where that comes from.

    15. Reha

      Funny thing is- after all the comments which your trusted ally used, the word ‘Woman’ came across as insulting.. lol. Weren’t we talking about being all proud and strong about this whole “female revolution”. And here are likes of You and Ananya (aka girlpower) who are insulted on being addressed as a women! Touche!!

    16. sangeeta

      Now that’s a pretty lame way to attempt to score a point. Anyone can gauge how a particular word is being used by the context and the punctuations used. If in your world, its not rude, then maybe there’s a difference of upbringing here.

    17. Reha

      Sangeeta, post being an advocate against this whole implication debate (remember how you were being a pastor against my implication of the salwar kameez and objectification of women?), it doesn’t suit you to actually assume and imply what the word ‘woman’ meant. Aren’t you and Ananya arguing about the face value of what was written by girlpower? So does this constitute of double standards? Ananya is immature and naive and i am currently amusing myself with her, however, you should have judged better.

    18. sangeeta

      Reha,

      Honestly, it is not about the word “Woman”, it is about the way it is spoken. That is what we are objecting to. Please don’t get the whole feminism debate into this, I will be tempted to call you a pseudo-feminist:-).

    19. sangeeta

      Oh! Do I detect some anger at being proved wrong? Please go through my comments, I have highlighted my opinion about the TOI vs Deepika issue. If I do not want to get into the offshoots of this discussion (which you all claim is not tangential and is relevant), that is my choice.
      Let me tell you, Bleh, we do not know you here. When you go about posting links so confidently, its a natural assumption that they must be valid links to prove your point. But once that’s misproven, it casts a shadow on all your claims. Its not about posting a correct link later.
      Again, assumptions about my ego are unwarranted. I can say the same thing about you, you admit to no wrong 🙂 . I have in fact subsequently complimented you on your manner of debate, agreed with you on a couple of points, but I guess we have selective memory here. And well, me calling you mentally-sick based on your remark about incest, is the same as Reha calling her opponents “idiots”. And she says that’s not condescending. So same goes for me.

    20. Ananya

      I can’t believe this! Seriously Reha, you gotta be trolling. Are you going to tell me that starting a sentence with “Woman!” was NOT condescending? Which planet are you from darling? Did you not attend an English-medium school? Are you not acquainted with tonalities of certain forms of address? I know that this English thing is done to death. I can’t help bringing it up.

    21. Reha

      1)I can’t believe this! Seriously Reha, you gotta be trolling. [Reha]- Umm, trolling? sorry can’t reply to something which doesn’t make sense. Restate the question. Trolling is no word.

      2)Are you going to tell me that starting a sentence with “Woman!” was NOT condescending?[Reha]- Nope, it is not. 😀

      3) Which planet are you from darling? [Reha] Earth

      4)Did you not attend an English-medium school? [Reha] All schools here are english medium (spanish is a second language, does that make a difference?)

      5)Are you not acquainted with tonalities of certain forms of address? [Reha] Tonalities? you sure you are using the right word? It is the character of a piece of music as determined by the key in which it is played or the relations between the notes of a scale or key or the harmonic effect of being in a particular key (So says Merriam Webster- which could be incorrect keeping in mind you know everything)

      I know that this English thing is done to death. I can’t help bringing it up.[Reha] Mistake forgiven. Don’t feel too bad about it. I won’t spank you. 😀

    22. Ananya

      Okay, I got my answer. Thanks for confirming my suspicions. Go back to school. That’s pretty much all I can say.

    23. Reha

      1)Okay, I got my answer. [Reha]- good it took us two days to convince you.

      2)Thanks for confirming my suspicions. [Reha] You are welcome.
      3)Go back to school. That’s pretty much all I can say.[Reha] I thought you said the same thing before! I was getting happy for no reason that you had left!! Oh come awnnn

    24. Ananya

      “Trolling is no word”

      I can’t believe you took offence when I asked you to join a circus. It shoulda been a compliment for you. 😀

    25. Reha

      1)“Trolling is no word”[Reha] Thank you for recognizing.

      2)I can’t believe you took offence when I asked you to join a circus. It shoulda been a compliment for you. :D[Reha] of-course I did! Its where you already work!! How can I do such a thing to a kid!! Nope sorry, can’t.

    26. Ananya

      If you haven’t heard of trolling, you need to leave the internet, don’t ya think?
      Second paragraph: What?

    27. Reha

      If you haven’t heard of trolling, you need to leave the internet, don’t ya think? [Reha]Nope, I might consider after you start using the right words in the right context. You leaving? Let me know, then I might just sacrifice myself for the good of greater humanity.
      Second paragraph: What? [Reha] What?

    28. Ananya

      Reha, wanna join Comedy Circus? A friend of mine is related to a producer there.

    29. Manish

      Rhea..Sangeeta…Ananya…
      Hypothetical scenario.
      I post something on a forum and the next guy says…
      “Man! I am with you against these idiots but please……..”
      I guess it’d be plenty clear who is on which side.(Replace Man with Dude, Boy, Fella..same effect..
      Okay maybe not ‘Chap’..;) but u sure see what mean..:)

      Afterwards as that altercation between girlpower and Rhea progressesd, the girl actually said, ” I think Mr Babar will be with me on this…”
      So she picks Mr Babar’s corner. (which I am sure would have given him a lot of pleasure as he sees women/girls as delicate, naive beings who are being blinded by ‘feminists’)

      If any of you wanted to pick sides that could have been a red marker right there..
      Just saying..

      Everyone gets pissed off being called a teenage ‘girl’ and at the same time argue how starting your sentence with “Woman!” is condescending to another fellow woman!!!
      I was just wondering what shud it be then…”Ladiesss” or “Hi Bitches!!” (Hilarious blogpost there Rhea..!)..:D

      So in the end, While Rhea was actually being supportive and quite the feminist here, the other two most active girls have turned on her..Thats fun..partly sad..partly annoying..

      No wonder they say its hard to understand women..
      No wonder they say out here in India, “A woman is a woman’s worst enemy”

      Lastly, we should all start some sort of activism..:)

    30. Reha

      SORRY FOR FLOODING EVERYONE’s MAILBOXES!!
      Eh Manish… Largely my fault. Had I ignored the first round of comments by Anaya nd ignored her, he’ll won’t have broken loose :p
      But then it did nd as you see shit happened … Lol.
      Anyways I see dat a recent comment got posted by me to Anaya.. No idea why so late.. I had posted it in d morning… So darling Ananya don’t start again please.
      I now cross my heart and promise… Never supporting another pseudo feminist again … Lol

    31. sangeeta

      Manish, MANISH — do you feel a difference in the way you are addressed in the above two ways? Is the second way a bit on the negative side? As I said before it is not about the word ‘woman’ it is about the manner of address. And Reha was not supporting girlpower. She implied some meaning and the altercation thus began. But anyway, it seems whatever Reha says is excused, strange I thought you would be more logical, judging from your earlier posts. This is not about women supporting women, after all we don’t want to be labelled ‘pseudo-feminists’!

  38. Reha

    Sangeeta,
    This whole Ananya aka girl power drama has already taken up the comment count to around 200. I don’t wish to pursue this any further. I had already started not replying to her immature girlish posts since I think I already indulged her enough .
    Intimidating was a ‘implied’ sense I got from your posts. Since we were all busy implying posts, I thought I’d be fine the opportunity to imply as well (read your and Ananya’s comments about implying what girl power actually meant and how I implied the incorrect meaning) , however I see you are not that generous ;).
    Anyways it’s nice to know that the pseudo feminists can imply all the comments here but the pseudo intellects arnt allowed to (it’s meant as a joke, hOpe this doesn’t spark another 50 comment debate)

    1. Reha

      I’m typing from a phone so hopefully your friend will not start the English rant again over missing key punctuations . ( just covering my ground in-case she decides to start all over again with her ” reha Aunty ” commotion)

    2. Ananya

      Btw darling, Saturday is nearly over. Its Sunday now. Kay? Sleep tight. School must be a holiday on Sundays even on your planet.

    3. Ananya

      Sangeeta, just read this post and see what you were up against. After all the labour I undertook in explaining her where she came across as bullying and condescending and how she misinterpreted girlpower, she still sticks to her guns just to defend her ego which is apparently the size of a mammoth. Couldn’t come up with a valid counter-reply, so tries to cover it by saying she “indulged me”. 😛 Just ignore this female, she’s even inserted “girlish” in this post to make sure she “wins”. I’m sure she’s probably a laughing-stock in her real life.

      Its no use arguing with her, a brick wall has more brains.

    4. Reha

      Oh lord! The whole drama again!! Sorry luv, I keep forgetting who u r. “Hold her guns”!! Gawd… Atleast use a better figure of speech- this dosent even make sense.
      And this whole “see sangeeta see”!! Drama and calling for help is hilarious. What u seriously think a few posts made by a insecure filthy mouth will actually bring my “mammoth ego” ( sounds so cool and makes me own my swag) down? Darling!! It’s d whole thing about us ‘bullies’!! U don’t get it do you? I ain’t coming down gal!( dats slang , before you start doing the “see sangeeta see! She used wrong English” drama)

      Now peace out.. I ain’t waistin my Saturday behind frustrated idiots like you. Get a life! It’s Saturday night for you! Ain’t it?

    5. bleh

      @ Reha, I take Sundays off and at last got some good weather in the ol’ midwest so couldn’t get to replying and keeping up with the updates. Things sure have been rolling and it is simply hilarious. I was literally laughing my … off at your replies with Sangeeta and Ananya kinda chipping away with no luck. Good job! And I promise to comment on your blogspot over this week.
      @ Sangeeta, Fall is in the air and it is the time for caricatures and brilliant hues. Your trust in me is broken, which has truly caused me distress and the loss of sleep for exactly a half hour. Which is a lot at times.
      I also will not float any shares of Reha LLC to you even though they seem to be soaring at the moment.
      And I totally agree with your criticism of Reha’s usage of the word ‘woman’. In fact I have used the word ‘Hey’ myself to varying effect. If I add a slight nasal tone to it (and wear a top hat) it implies a deep insult of people. But I won’t ‘Hey’ you.
      @ Piyush Welcome to the merry gang of pseduo intellectuals. Our favorite past time is conversing in wrong English, putting up articles on various genetic deformities and claiming them to be something else (like the one time I wanted to provide proof of Newton’s 3rd law but instead provided proof of genetic variations in atrophic muscular disorder), and telling people of all ages to be careful. Last day I did one of these tasks by requesting a boy not to cross the streets during heavy traffic. I was duly told by an entity, who was not a woman (I repeat NOT a woman), to mind my own business and not mess with the freedom to cross. It is a tough life but you, Piyush, will be a martyr right?
      @ Ananya Let me know if you wish to acquire some tickets from the latest show produced by Reha LLC (branded as the Supercool Company). We have Reha herself as the main act on trapeze, where she tries to balance herself on a trapezoid and run in circles. We also have Mr. Manish as the water thrower (he refused flames because they might be dangerous). I promise it will be fun. And we will all speak in Russian so polished that Tzar Nicholas would have been proud.
      We will also be influencing several sections of the society through our act so we will cancel the part where Piyush gets to hit Mr Babar twice on the head. Violence will not be condoned.
      We will also make sure all freedoms are exercised. Our audience can loudly relieve themselves anywhere they wish to, and Mr Manish will quietly say a pee joke in your ear which will give you confidence.
      I will of course double check all the material to be delivered by the clown (Mr Babar who is an honorary member, whether or not he likes it) and make sure he has not plagiarized anything. I will also make sure the format adheres to APA standards and that no mistakes are made. If I do make a mistake, I promise to take on the circus elephant (who we all mistreat all the time) myself and arm wrestle with the elephant till dawn the next day.

    6. Sangeeta

      Bleh, (and not BLEH! :-)),

      I did find myself laughing at your post, you can be hilarious at times. Anyway, I think we all have amply either entertained or annoyed the receivers of our posts, I am assuming the admin will be shutting out all of us soon! Whatever your view about me – that I was chiselling away at Reha, carrying on some impressionist movement, etc, – I shall simply overlook, because there is only so much one can do to put across one’s opinion. The rest is up to the audience (which in my view is extremely biased) to take it in a fair spirit. Haha, the only reason I made an issue about your wrong link, was because you and Reha did not take my correction in the right spirit ( e.g. “go back to the drawing board”, Reha completely misunderstanding my post, etc). About the ‘Woman!’ issue, just a suggestion, try addressing your lady friends like that, and see their reaction :-).

    7. Reha

      Sangeeta, issue is exactly that darling :), ‘woman’ is a figure of speech( much like man or dude) which is EXTREMELY common in use ! ‘Wassup woman’ might sound derogatory to you but in the rest it is a way of asking how the female friend is doing. That’s what silly about this debate! Now you’ll also lecture me about how ‘darling’ shouldn’t be used to address another woman or why arnt you coaching us on the effects of negatively addressing men as ‘Man’ it ‘Dude’. You feminists I tell you :).. Always biased . To answer you question, I continue to use ‘Woman’ in my everyday communication and also get addressed that way by my peers and colleagues … There is nothing derogatory about it!

      @Bleh.. Sunday was pretty even on d east coast! No cold chills, d leaves r turning color( damn winters coming in) and mums r everywhere. Therefore I had to excuse myself from the very charmin Ananya starting Saturday night while she went about posting victory messages on various posts :p( I just bought her onto myself again. Watch her descend with all the glory )
      Though I must admit, considering I only have two days off in a week, I sat on d phone nd laptop during the day Saturday .This makes me feel like a idiot now .. Waisting d day on her while Monday came with the same zeal nd speed..tch tch.

    8. Sangeeta

      Reha,
      Please do not call me a feminist for no rhyme or reason. I have no interest in feminism or pseudo-feminism as you call it. But yes, I recognise basic human rights and rules of etiquette. My view was limited to that, and this entire feminism debate was an offshoot, which I had no interest in. I feel you jumped to conclusions about “girlpower”‘s opinion, purely based on her handle – “girlpower”. Its very clear to any fair-minded person , you misunderstood what she was saying, and all the altercation following that was a result of your misunderstanding. Yes, in my part of the world, addressing someone as ‘Woman!’ (note the exclamation mark), does border on offensive. So maybe we have a cultural difference here. And don’t worry about your spelling mistakes, I do not get into petty arguments about grammar when I have no other valid point to make.

    9. Reha

      Sangeeta, it is ammusing how someone who has been debating high and low about how I shouldn’t have interpreted girlpower a certain way and taken her words at their face value rather taking out ‘meanings’ is now openly intrepretting me about how I ‘assumed’ what I assumed because you assume that I assumed girlpower was saying certain things assuming her handler was ‘girlpower’. So basically you are allowed to implement what I say to suit your assumptions however me doing it raises a hue and cry from the MAHILA MANDAL! Hypocritical if ask me!

      Anyways, I think I’ve given you and Ananya enough limelight on my pretext and wish to indulge you no further. You feel the audience is biased since they are not biased to your thought process, however what you fail to comprehend is that people are allowed to have their own personal opinion which may or may not fall in the same line as yours. Calling others biased in their is extremely condescending in my opinion(or of-course! Like your dear ally concluded, we all are the same person writing all these posts using different handlers) .

      Your ‘Please do not call me a feminist for no rhyme or reason’ came across as extremely rude and offensive like you were trying to intimidate me;clear to any fair-minded person 😉

    10. Reha

      Amusing* and Calling others biased in their opinion* (before someone misrepresents)

    11. sangeeta

      Reha, wow, we are clearly people with different perceptions of just about anything. Anyway, I see it’s pointless arguing with someone who refuses to see any other viewpoint. Signing off, leaving you and Bleh to discuss the weather:-)

    12. Reha

      Yup, we have different perceptions of just about anything, therefore it is best that you forget about me and not ache that heart further. We cannot get married and my decision is firm. Its a breakup! But a day will come when you will find someone, someone who will accept you for the way you are, till then, pray hard my love!

      Adios senorita!

    13. Reha

      Fatfingered and missed some some punctuations in d reply.( disadvantages of auto correct) Hope the world will be kind to me.

    14. Ananya

      Wow,wow and wow. I seem to have been gone for about a week, (or maybe more than a week, yup). I’d forgotten about this shite when I see a mail pop up in my inbox, and guess what, its darling Reha! And—goodness gracious! She still ain’t over it, being exactly as whiny and pansy as at the time I left her. 😀

      Okay darling, I get it—you are aweeeesommeeee and kewwwwwl. Now stop crying. Its been a whole week and three days. And “swag”? Looks like your school buddies taught you a new word.

      Bleh: LOL.

  39. advaney

    Too many people hv access to internet today so they think let’s write anything sensational and truly the world goes tizzy with opinions and judgements sad but at what cost at the cost of an innocent victim gender not important as far as it can be controversial no conscience sic sic

  40. Shirish Patwa

    I really like the article.If you can describe a Newspaper as snobbish, Times Of India is the one which pops up in mind instantly. They feel they are full upto brim with knowledge and modesty.There are many newspapers and T V channels which thrive on sensetionalization,to the extent that they forget that they are in fact insulting the common sense of the readers/viewers.Whenever a topic of women comes in discussion immediately they assume the role of father or, so to say, villain and Start abusing,abusing their positions,wielding the stick of morality and what not.Some time back I expressed opinion that all idioms which connotes belittling womanhood should be expunged from our vocabulary.Immediatlly I was made transgender by some such villains!

  41. nayanika mukherjee

    i do love this post… TOI, a very respectable newspaper of India was not known to be such a conservative all-knowing prick…
    this post and you yourself describe how a man can also be a feminist…

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An ambassador and trained facilitator under Eco Femme (a social enterprise working towards menstrual health in south India), Sanjina is also an active member of the MHM Collective- India and Menstrual Health Alliance- India. She has conducted Menstrual Health sessions in multiple government schools adopted by Rotary District 3240 as part of their WinS project in rural Bengal. She has also delivered training of trainers on SRHR, gender, sexuality and Menstruation for Tomorrow’s Foundation, Vikramshila Education Resource Society, Nirdhan trust and Micro Finance, Tollygunj Women In Need, Paint It Red in Kolkata.

Now as an MH Fellow with YKA, she’s expanding her impressive scope of work further by launching a campaign to facilitate the process of ensuring better menstrual health and SRH services for women residing in correctional homes in West Bengal. The campaign will entail an independent study to take stalk of the present conditions of MHM in correctional homes across the state and use its findings to build public support and political will to take the necessary action.

Saurabh has been associated with YKA as a user and has consistently been writing on the issue MHM and its intersectionality with other issues in the society. Now as an MHM Fellow with YKA, he’s launched the Right to Period campaign, which aims to ensure proper execution of MHM guidelines in Delhi’s schools.

The long-term aim of the campaign is to develop an open culture where menstruation is not treated as a taboo. The campaign also seeks to hold the schools accountable for their responsibilities as an important component in the implementation of MHM policies by making adequate sanitation infrastructure and knowledge of MHM available in school premises.

Read more about his campaign.

Harshita is a psychologist and works to support people with mental health issues, particularly adolescents who are survivors of violence. Associated with the Azadi Foundation in UP, Harshita became an MHM Fellow with YKA, with the aim of promoting better menstrual health.

Her campaign #MeriMarzi aims to promote menstrual health and wellness, hygiene and facilities for female sex workers in UP. She says, “Knowledge about natural body processes is a very basic human right. And for individuals whose occupation is providing sexual services, it becomes even more important.”

Meri Marzi aims to ensure sensitised, non-discriminatory health workers for the needs of female sex workers in the Suraksha Clinics under the UPSACS (Uttar Pradesh State AIDS Control Society) program by creating more dialogues and garnering public support for the cause of sex workers’ menstrual rights. The campaign will also ensure interventions with sex workers to clear misconceptions around overall hygiene management to ensure that results flow both ways.

Read more about her campaign.

MH Fellow Sabna comes with significant experience working with a range of development issues. A co-founder of Project Sakhi Saheli, which aims to combat period poverty and break menstrual taboos, Sabna has, in the past, worked on the issue of menstruation in urban slums of Delhi with women and adolescent girls. She and her team also released MenstraBook, with menstrastories and organised Menstra Tlk in the Delhi School of Social Work to create more conversations on menstruation.

With YKA MHM Fellow Vineet, Sabna launched Menstratalk, a campaign that aims to put an end to period poverty and smash menstrual taboos in society. As a start, the campaign aims to begin conversations on menstrual health with five hundred adolescents and youth in Delhi through offline platforms, and through this community mobilise support to create Period Friendly Institutions out of educational institutes in the city.

Read more about her campaign. 

A student from Delhi School of Social work, Vineet is a part of Project Sakhi Saheli, an initiative by the students of Delhi school of Social Work to create awareness on Menstrual Health and combat Period Poverty. Along with MHM Action Fellow Sabna, Vineet launched Menstratalk, a campaign that aims to put an end to period poverty and smash menstrual taboos in society.

As a start, the campaign aims to begin conversations on menstrual health with five hundred adolescents and youth in Delhi through offline platforms, and through this community mobilise support to create Period Friendly Institutions out of educational institutes in the city.

Find out more about the campaign here.

A native of Bhagalpur district – Bihar, Shalini Jha believes in equal rights for all genders and wants to work for a gender-equal and just society. In the past she’s had a year-long association as a community leader with Haiyya: Organise for Action’s Health Over Stigma campaign. She’s pursuing a Master’s in Literature with Ambedkar University, Delhi and as an MHM Fellow with YKA, recently launched ‘Project अल्हड़ (Alharh)’.

She says, “Bihar is ranked the lowest in India’s SDG Index 2019 for India. Hygienic and comfortable menstruation is a basic human right and sustainable development cannot be ensured if menstruators are deprived of their basic rights.” Project अल्हड़ (Alharh) aims to create a robust sensitised community in Bhagalpur to collectively spread awareness, break the taboo, debunk myths and initiate fearless conversations around menstruation. The campaign aims to reach at least 6000 adolescent girls from government and private schools in Baghalpur district in 2020.

Read more about the campaign here.

A psychologist and co-founder of a mental health NGO called Customize Cognition, Ritika forayed into the space of menstrual health and hygiene, sexual and reproductive healthcare and rights and gender equality as an MHM Fellow with YKA. She says, “The experience of working on MHM/SRHR and gender equality has been an enriching and eye-opening experience. I have learned what’s beneath the surface of the issue, be it awareness, lack of resources or disregard for trans men, who also menstruate.”

The Transmen-ses campaign aims to tackle the issue of silence and disregard for trans men’s menstruation needs, by mobilising gender sensitive health professionals and gender neutral restrooms in Lucknow.

Read more about the campaign here.

A Computer Science engineer by education, Nitisha started her career in the corporate sector, before realising she wanted to work in the development and social justice space. Since then, she has worked with Teach For India and Care India and is from the founding batch of Indian School of Development Management (ISDM), a one of its kind organisation creating leaders for the development sector through its experiential learning post graduate program.

As a Youth Ki Awaaz Menstrual Health Fellow, Nitisha has started Let’s Talk Period, a campaign to mobilise young people to switch to sustainable period products. She says, “80 lakh women in Delhi use non-biodegradable sanitary products, generate 3000 tonnes of menstrual waste, that takes 500-800 years to decompose; which in turn contributes to the health issues of all menstruators, increased burden of waste management on the city and harmful living environment for all citizens.

Let’s Talk Period aims to change this by

Find out more about her campaign here.

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A former Assistant Secretary with the Ministry of Women and Child Development in West Bengal for three months, Lakshmi Bhavya has been championing the cause of menstrual hygiene in her district. By associating herself with the Lalana Campaign, a holistic menstrual hygiene awareness campaign which is conducted by the Anahat NGO, Lakshmi has been slowly breaking taboos when it comes to periods and menstrual hygiene.

A Gender Rights Activist working with the tribal and marginalized communities in india, Srilekha is a PhD scholar working on understanding body and sexuality among tribal girls, to fill the gaps in research around indigenous women and their stories. Srilekha has worked extensively at the grassroots level with community based organisations, through several advocacy initiatives around Gender, Mental Health, Menstrual Hygiene and Sexual and Reproductive Health Rights (SRHR) for the indigenous in Jharkhand, over the last 6 years.

Srilekha has also contributed to sustainable livelihood projects and legal aid programs for survivors of sex trafficking. She has been conducting research based programs on maternal health, mental health, gender based violence, sex and sexuality. Her interest lies in conducting workshops for young people on life skills, feminism, gender and sexuality, trauma, resilience and interpersonal relationships.

A Guwahati-based college student pursuing her Masters in Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Bidisha started the #BleedwithDignity campaign on the technology platform Change.org, demanding that the Government of Assam install
biodegradable sanitary pad vending machines in all government schools across the state. Her petition on Change.org has already gathered support from over 90000 people and continues to grow.

Bidisha was selected in Change.org’s flagship program ‘She Creates Change’ having run successful online advocacy
campaigns, which were widely recognised. Through the #BleedwithDignity campaign; she organised and celebrated World Menstrual Hygiene Day, 2019 in Guwahati, Assam by hosting a wall mural by collaborating with local organisations. The initiative was widely covered by national and local media, and the mural was later inaugurated by the event’s chief guest Commissioner of Guwahati Municipal Corporation (GMC) Debeswar Malakar, IAS.

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